Lib Dem Polls - How Low Can They Go?

[Blagsta]

Not at all, I just don't have the time to post on all the threads at the same time.

 

[Steel Icarus]

I'll be celebrating my successful election to office.

 

[DrRingDing]

Have you seen this chart?

...but have you taken into account inflation?

 

[moon23]

...but have you taken into account inflation?

That was point I was making, total growth is meaningless. You have to look at spending in relation to GDP.

 

[Blagsta]

and if you plot it in relation to GDP?

 

[Kaka Tim]

Thats why its deliberately missleading to go on about 'only reducing spending to 2007' levels without mentioning 'as a proportion of gdp'. like you and your fellow friedmanite tory cunts have been.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Um, Moon. What you need to do is adjust the government spending figures to some kind of base unit using the inflation figures (2011 pounds would seem like a sensible option in this case) - then see what happens to the line.

Saying that the only sensible comparison to make is with GDP is a complete load of tosh, and I suspect you know it.

 

[co-op]

I'll be celebrating my successful election to office.

Good luck with that you tory stooge.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Oh, and you'll probably want to also factor in the increase in population. So use the population figures for each of the years above to give you a nice chart of "Annual public expenditure per capita (adjusted to 2011 pounds)".

I'd do it myself, only I work in a cancer research lab, and I can't hep but think I'd be better off getting back to work.

 

[Blagsta]

I'll be celebrating my successful election to office.

...and I'll be selling some stories to the papers.

 

[butchersapron]

I'll be celebrating my successful election to office.

Where are you standing?

 

[Streathamite]

I'd donate to the campaign of his Labour oppo,tbh

 

[killer b]

A delusional lib dem urbanite standing for council? That doesn't normally end well, does it?

 

[Balbi]

Cue moon complaining about the Tory government making them implement frontline cuts on May 6th

 

[Proper Tidy]

I'll be celebrating my successful election to office.

Good luck with that lol

 

[Combustible]

Oh, and you'll probably want to also factor in the increase in population. So use the population figures for each of the years above to give you a nice chart of "Annual public expenditure per capita (adjusted to 2011 pounds)".

I'd do it myself, only I work in a cancer research lab, and I can't hep but think I'd be better off getting back to work.

And if the issue is debt you also want to factor in increased tax receipts. Now if you look at the trend of public debt as a % of GDP...

 

[SpineyNorman]

the government you support have axed the HMRC unit dedicated to targetting the wealthy

Have you got a link for that? I'm not disputing it, it's just one more thing I can use against my Lib Dem apologist sister.

 

[Streathamite]

Have you got a link for that? I'm not disputing it, it's just one more thing I can use against my Lib Dem apologist sister.

I'll have a hunt round for you

 

[Balbi]

And if the issue is debt you also want to factor in increased tax receipts. Now if you look at the trend of public debt as a % of GDP...

Look at that boom in 2008. I'm amazed the public sector needed a near on doubling of cash to keep it going. Oh wait, they didn't - the public sector's had increased revenue but the majority of the debt was aimed at Northern Rock, RBS etc.

So the structural debt's actually a creation of the Banking institutions, rather than the essential public services.

Luckily we've managed to get back that money through ensuring the publicly owned banks pay back a share of profits and high risk transactions, and taxing bonuses appropriately until the debt's been settled. Or not.

 

[nino_savatte]

Tell me about wealth creation, moon.

 

[Streathamite]

Have you got a link for that? I'm not disputing it, it's just one more thing I can use against my Lib Dem apologist sister.

Transpires I got it only half-right -they arecutting it by 20%,with more to come(a birdie tells me)

 

[ViolentPanda]

What? We were in recession before the coalition even came into power...

The one triggered by the "credit crunch" and the bail-outs? That's not really credible, given that it wasn't a function of the usual recessionary pressures, but rather of "credit crunch"-inspired non-investment and purchasing, and resolved itself quickly.

...and we are not in a recession at the moment.

Are you unable to read? I said "imminent recession".

You know, the one that's imminent given that a year of slash and burn on spending has had a negative effect on economic growth.

Simple economics - Higher unemployment = lower spending = less impetus for growth.

You can't possibly suggest the economic crisis is the fault of the coalition?

I haven't done so, I've very clearly stated that the coming economic crisis will be the fault of the coalition.

Borrowing is one short-term approach to getting yourself out of a recession but it has long-term impact.

More economic illiteracy. Borrowing's impact is predicated on the conditions of borrowing.

Now, what sort of borrowing conditions does a country with a triple A credit rating have applied to them?

The debts that a country takes on have to be repaid...

You don't say!

...and that means that an increasing amount of our GDP is spent on serving debt.

The phrase is "servicing debt", and your claim of an increasing percentage of GDP being taken up would only apply to a stagnant economy. Are you know acknowledging that the likely outcome of the coalitions' cuts is a stagnant economy?

Keynesian economics ends up like a pyramid scheme, having to take on increasing amounts of debt.

Not it doesn't, because the idea (as ably proven over the last 80 or so years) is to use borrowing to fund infrastructure development, development that, in terms of facilitating commerce, generally pays for itself over the medium term.

So, any increased debt is short-term, and (given the UK's credit status) cheap.

When the credit eventually dries up you are in trouble as the economy has been built around public sector borrowing, financial services and a public sector that is too large to be supported by our taxation receipts.

Please quantify the following:

1) To what extent the "economy has been built around public sector borrowing". A percentage will do.

2) To what degree the public sector is "too large".

3) How you arrived at the conclusion that our tax receipts cannot/will not be able to support the size of the public sector.

I want proper answers, please, not your usual waffle.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh really? Ever heard of FDR?The New Deal?
Remind me which country came out of the Great Depression best,O tory twat

Moon obviously knows better than academic economic historians and economists how well Keynesianism worked. History is wrong!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are you related to Ed Miliband? this is precisely the sort of economic scaremongering that discourages growth.

Don't talk bollocks, there's a good halfwit.

Do you really believe that economic growth is influenced by an observation by an opposition politician, rather than influenced by the policies of the government, and its' own analysis of the economy?

You're already fucking dead.

 

[Refused as fuck]

... but I do take heart at the things the party is doing to make Britain more liberal.

The amount of mental gymnastics it must take to believe this statement (in your definition of "liberal") either makes you very ill or a liar. Obviously you're a liar who is very mentally ill.

 

[Streathamite]

Please quantify the following:

1) To what extent the "economy has been built around public sector borrowing". A percentage will do.

2) To what degree the public sector is "too large".

3) How you arrived at the conclusion that our tax receipts cannot/will not be able to support the size of the public sector.

I want proper answers, please, not your usual waffle.

Actually,I'd rather like answers to these too....

 

[Streathamite]

Moon obviously knows better than academic economic historians and economists how well Keynesianism worked. History is wrong!

yes,I think that IS his thought processes,scarily

 

[poisondwarf]

Nothing to add about economics, as I don't know much but I had the misfortune to go and see my local lib dem councillor about a delicate matter on Monday evening. After I had given him a bit of a ribbing about how people really didn't like them, he proceeded to tell me how when they did the negotiations last May, Labour acted like children who were taking their ball away but the Tories were very professional and businesslike. I would have loved to have chatted a bit more to him about his delusions but I had other stuff to do.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Where are you standing?

In a corner, looking a bit baffled.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Transpires I got it only half-right -they arecutting it by 20%,with more to come(a birdie tells me)

Thanks, that'll do nicely. I read somewhere that for every £1 they spend on tax investigation they get something like £35 back, so 20% is more than enough. This can't possibly be a cost saving cut - it's a help those nice people who fund our party cut and a bleeding obvious one at that.