Lib Dem Polls - How Low Can They Go?

[moon23]

Yes, you are.

This is delusional beyond belief.

 

[moon23]

They are cunts.

Yea we are cunts for working our arses off to pass a council budget that only saw a handful of staff losing their jobs, and front-line services protected. Unlike Labour who have been happy to cut left right and centre and blame it all on the national restrictions.

 

[Balbi]

Whilst doing this we also need to protect as many front-line services as possible. This is what Lib-Dem councils have been doing up and down the country. That's why no Lib-Dem council is shutting a single sure-start centre 1, why we have secured the pupil premium to ensure the most disadvantaged kids get extra help in a time of hardship 2. It's also why we have campaigned to get the tax threshold raised to bring millions of people out of paying income tax all together.3


Say what you like about the Lib Dems, but we are not the one's that created this fucking mess in the first place.

Oh my god, that's almost word for word what Clegg said Sunday. moon's actually Clegg

1. No, because they got hammered by central party not to. The money went out of OTHER less trumpeted front line services instead.

2. Which won't actually do that, and combined with the SEN changes will mean less money for schools in difficult catchments (like mine)

3. That's equality. Making sure the poorest pay no tax, just like the richest

 

[Santino]

Yea we are cunts for working our arses off to pass a council budget that only saw a handful of staff losing their jobs, and front-line services protected. Unlike Labour who have been happy to cut left right and centre and blame it all on the national restrictions.

What did you cut?

 

[Crispy]

Have you seen this chart?

Yeah, it doesn't have a single downward year-on-year change, no matter the state of the UK economy at the time.

 

[Streathamite]

He's quite wrong, you know, and so are you. We have a triple A rating that's extremely unlikely, in fact vanishingly unlikely to be down-graded, however much business OR individual economic illiterates like moon try to talk it down. Borrowing at low cost, which is what we're able to do, is eminently sensible for pump-priming, as is nullifying the decrease in CT.

actually,you're right,a combination of low-interest borrowing AND taxing the wealthy and the corporates more would do the trick

 

[Streathamite]

Whilst doing this we also need to protect as many front-line services as possible. This is what Lib-Dem councils have been doing up and down the country. That's why no Lib-Dem council is shutting a single sure-start centre, why we have secured the pupil premium to ensure the most disadvantaged kids get extra help in a time of hardship. It's also why we have campaigned to get the tax threshold raisedSay what you like about the Lib Dems, but we are not the one's that created this fucking mess in the first place to bring millions of people out of paying income tax all together.

ALL of your councils are not in areas of the greatest social deprivation-they have it easy,financially.AND the "pupil premium" was NOT funded by an increase in the overall Education budget-you simply shafted one lot to fund another

Say what you like about the Lib Dems, but we are not the one's that created this fucking mess in the first place

No-for the UMPTEENTH FUCKING TIME...it was the BANKS.
The same banks you've just limply capitulated to (see;Merlin)

 

[moon23]

Yeah, it doesn't have a single downward year-on-year change, no matter the state of the UK economy at the time.

Which is why it's meaningless to talk of total gross spending in cash terms. It doesn't take into account inflation or how it relates to GDP which is required if you want to think about per capita spending. That's why people talk about percentage of spending to GDP as an indicator of public spending levels.

in 2015 the coalition will be spending the same on DLA as it does now. However as people know there are plans to cut the mobility allowance (that I disagree with). Also due to inflation and a rising population and GDP this will equate to a real-term cut.

 

[Streathamite]

Borrowing is one short-term approach to getting yourself out of a recession but it has long-term impact. The debts that a country takes on have to be repaid, and that means that an increasing amount of our GDP is spent on serving debt. Keynesian economics ends up like a pyramid scheme, having to take on increasing amounts of debt. When the credit eventually dries up you are in trouble as the economy has been built around public sector borrowing, financial services and a public sector that is too large to be supported by our taxation receipts.

Oh really? Ever heard of FDR?The New Deal?
Remind me which country came out of the Great Depression best,O tory twat

 

[DotCommunist]

heh. and to think some of those displaced dust bowl refugee communities were run basically as collectives. The horror, the horror

 

[Streathamite]

What? We were in recession before the coalition even came into power and we are not in a recession at the moment. You can't possibly suggest the economic crisis is the fault of the coalition?

We are on the way back to recession RIGHT NOW.With 2.5 million unemployed

 

[moon23]

ALL of your councils are not in areas of the greatest social deprivation-they have it easy,financially.AND the "pupil premium" was NOT funded by an increase in the overall Education budget-you simply shafted one lot to fund another

It was protected from cuts thought Streathamite, which in a time of hardship when everyone is feeling the pain of the recession is a good thing. The pupil premium is about ensuring that the poorest are protected and that children on free school meals don't suffer as a result. It's a good thing.

No-for the UMPTEENTH FUCKING TIME...it was the BANKS.
The same banks you've just limply capitulated to (see;Merlin)

I'm not saying Labour were responsible for the banking crisis. You could argue they should have done more to regulate it and foresee it coming but I think that's a bit unfair on Balls. I doubt any government in power would have done things that differently.

All I am saying is that when we entered the crisis our deficit was already amongst the highest in the G7. This wasn't the case in the early 2000s, Labour's spending left us in a situation where it was harder to borrow money as a Keynesian economic model would suggest. If you look at other countries e.g. Germany they had far less debt going into the crisis and as such were able to pump more money into the economy. In this regard Labour are partially to blame for our sluggish recovery and the need now to take action to avoid a sovereign debt crisis.

Even Labour recognised we would need £14Bn of cuts when they were in power. It's only really the Greens and Trots who think you can simply tax your way out of the problem.

 

[Santino]

It is bleakly amusing that a lot of people think the cuts have already gone too far when they've barely even begun. I would put money on the Lib Dems being at 5% nationally before the end of the year.

 

[moon23]

We are on the way back to recession RIGHT NOW.With 2.5 million unemployed

Are you related to Ed Miliband? this is precisely the sort of economic scaremongering that discourages growth.

 

[moon23]

It is bleakly amusing that a lot of people think the cuts have already gone too far when they've barely even begun. I would put money on the Lib Dems being at 5% nationally before the end of the year.

Labour were right this term in government was a poisoned chalice. As Clegg said, no one enters politics to balance the books. I don't enjoy being a Lib Dem much when faced with such a bleak budget, but I do take heart at the things the party is doing to make Britain more liberal.

 

[Balbi]

Are you related to Ed Miliband? this is precisely the sort of economic scaremongering that discourages growth.

Rather than removing billions from the economy?

Fucks sake, it's actually worse that anyone realises.

The govt. are insisting the private sector can take all the job losses from the public, when the private sectors going to be creamed by the sudden income drop experienced by many public sector workers. Revenue streams for council and government drop as a result, the cut in frontline services put areas into a spiral of poverty and despair as the larger number of unemployed have access to a smaller and smaller group of services. Then the benefit 'restructuring' kicks in and everyones working for a minimum wage that would have been 'minimum' before all the damned inflation and interest rate rises. No-one from these areas goes to university, as most are attempting to keep their heads above water.

The private sector, in the mean time, has flourished. Well, the financial sector has which drags the rest along with it. Rising local business rates finally nail many high streets, and tesco divvys up the country (good source of employment!). Then the bubble bursts again for the financial sector. But there's no public services left to cut. They were to blame last time.

Wat do?

 

[magneze]

Are you related to Ed Miliband? this is precisely the sort of economic scaremongering that discourages growth.

LOL

That's probably the funniest thing I've read in the politics forum for a while.

 

[Balbi]

moon's going to go all scanners on May 6th

"but, BUT, BUT, bbbbbbbbbbbbbuuttt, it wasn't our FAULT!" *kerpowsplat*

 

[Streathamite]

It was protected from cuts thought Streathamite, which in a time of hardship when everyone is feeling the pain of the recession is a good thing. The pupil premium is about ensuring that the poorest are protected and that children on free school meals don't suffer as a result. It's a good thing.

utter fucking sophistry.
If you shift money without increasing the overall spend,you're shafting SOMEONE'S education.
Full stop

 

[killer b]

i wonder what the historical precedents of cutting in a recession teach us?

 

[Streathamite]

Are you related to Ed Miliband? this is precisely the sort of economic scaremongering that discourages growth.

Oh,my heaving sides....Those are government unemployment figures Moon23,out today
e2a:and spending cuts encourage growth?

 

[Blagsta]

Are you related to Ed Miliband? this is precisely the sort of economic scaremongering that discourages growth.

I see you chickened out of the other thread.

 

[Blagsta]

Yea we are cunts for working our arses off to pass a council budget that only saw a handful of staff losing their jobs, and front-line services protected. Unlike Labour who have been happy to cut left right and centre and blame it all on the national restrictions.

more lies, have a look at what is happening in Birmingham

 

[moon23]

utter fucking sophistry.
If you shift money without increasing the overall spend,you're shafting SOMEONE'S education.
Full stop

Your ensuring in a time of hardship that those who need help the most get it.

 

[moon23]

I see you chickened out of the other thread.

Not at all, I just don't have the time to post on all the threads at the same time.

 

[moon23]

moon's going to go all scanners on May 6th

"but, BUT, BUT, bbbbbbbbbbbbbuuttt, it wasn't our FAULT!" *kerpowsplat*

I'll be celebrating my successful election to office.

 

[Streathamite]

Your ensuring in a time of hardship that those who need help the most get it.

EVERYBODY in full-time(or part-time)education "needs help"

 

[Streathamite]

I'll be celebrating my successful election to office.

This really is your morning for comedy

 

[King Biscuit Time]

I'll be celebrating my successful election to office.

You just make sure you keep the receipt for that bottle of bubbly eh?

 

[BigTom]

more lies, have a look at what is happening in Birmingham

Yep, lets take a few examples from this tory/lib dem coalition:
2,450 jobs to go this year (7,000 over 3 years),
£51m cut from adult care services, removing all care from adults with "substantial" care needs (4,200 lose all care iirc, 11,000 lose either all or part of their care),
youth srvices budget cut by £3m ending 40% of youth services,
childrens care budget is being cut but I really can't remember how much by - this affects looked after children
120 redundnacies + all bar one office closure for connexions, half of neighbourhood offices planned to close (so basically destroying free advice services, esp. if CAB precarious state ends with them closing)

That's off the top of my head, amy have got some figures slightly wrong but the impact of the cuts is on front line services to the most vulnerable - adults and children with care needs.