Lewisham A&E under threat + campaign

[ska invita]

i wonder if a judicial review might at least slow it down considerably till a new health minister comes in...not that i have any faith in labour reversing this decision should they get a chance

 

[clicker]

Fingers crossed though.

 

[the button]

i wonder if a judicial review might at least slow it down considerably till a new health minister comes in...not that i have any faith in labour reversing this decision should they get a chance

Especially when the suggestion made at one of the campaign planning meetings that all MPs supporting the campaign should declare that they would reverse the decision if their party was in power was ruled out as being "too divisive."

 

[clicker]

Especially when the suggestion made at one of the campaign planning meetings that all MPs supporting the campaign should declare that they would reverse the decision if their party was in power was ruled out as being "too divisive."

Ah not so good then

 

[ska invita]

Especially when the suggestion made at one of the campaign planning meetings that all MPs supporting the campaign should declare that they would reverse the decision if their party was in power was ruled out as being "too divisive."

can you give some insight as to how this decision was arrived at? I havent been to any of these planning meetings

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I think asking a future government to commit to reverse the decision (if that's what was meant) isn't practical - it's going to be bloody difficult to reinstate services once the tories have cut them and sold the site off to one of their chums...

 

[ska invita]

I think asking a future government to commit to reverse the decision (if that's what was meant) isn't practical - it's going to be bloody difficult to reinstate services once the tories have cut them and sold the site off to one of their chums...

what i'm saying is that with judicial review the process can be slowed right down , and i don't think even at full speed ahead it would happen for...two years time?
In theory need to make it to May 2015 without it having happened for most likely a change to a labour government

 

[the button]

can you give some insight as to how this decision was arrived at? I havent been to any of these planning meetings

50-80 people turn up. "Top table" talk for about an hour. Meeting is "opened up to the floor." Suggestion is made and discussed. "Top table speaker" storms out. Suggestion is ruled out by other "top table speaker" as being too divisive. The person making the suggestion is chastised for upsetting the top table speaker who stormed out. Meeting ends.

Obviously those aren't full minutes, but you get the idea.

 

[ska invita]

who are these people? who 'controls' this side of the campaign?

 

[the button]

who are these people? who 'controls' this side of the campaign?

Dr Louise Irvine is the "chair" of the campaign:
http://www.gponline.com/News/articl...-why-doctors-formed-political-party-save-NHS/

Helmut the megaphone bloke from earlier up the thread is "joint secretary," although I'm not sure who he's joint secretary with.

It's basically this lot:

http://www.lewishamkonp.org/contactus/aboutus

 

[the button]

Another thing to add to the list of things that Louise Irvine thinks are "too divisive" after last night's meeting:

* asking the unions in the hospital to ballot for industrial action of their choosing.

Interestingly, this proposal was defeated quite narrowly, even though the "leadership" spoke against it from the chair and called more speakers against than for.

 

[cesare]

Another thing to add to the list of things that Louise Irvine thinks are "too divisive" after last night's meeting:

* asking the unions in the hospital to ballot for industrial action of their choosing.

Interestingly, this proposal was defeated quite narrowly, even though the "leadership" spoke against it from the chair and called more speakers against than for.

Has Louise Irvine given any indication of what she wouldn't consider "divisive"? I'm thinking perhaps expressing mild annoyance by way of a strongly worded letter?

 

[the button]

mild annoyance by way of a strongly worded letter?

More divisiveness .

Has Louise Irvine given any indication of what she wouldn't consider "divisive"?

Amazingly, Louise Irvine's own proposal was first on the agenda . It would seem that raising £20k for legal costs of a judicial review and photo ops with cute kids in buggies is officially Not Divisive.

 

[cesare]

Fuck's sake

What's wrong with divisiveness anyway? It's the hospital and community v the government and its lackeys. What's wrong with that?

 

[the button]

Probably the most significant thing from last night was that there were two proposals on direct action. The first one was:

FUCK SHIT UP, YO!!!!111!!!!eleven!!!! (I'm summarising)

... and the second was,

Direct action is bad, mmmkay? We shouldn't upset the media or do anything illegal or harmful

Oddly and interestingly, both proposals were defeated. So it's not like there's no mood for direct action, it's just what kind & how it's presented. Tbh, I wouldn't have supported the first proposal, because I don't think that publicly committing a mass campaign to support illegal direct action in an open meeting is the best idea anyone's ever had.

 

[cesare]

 

[love detective]

Probably the most significant thing from last night was that there were two proposals on direct action. The first one was:

FUCK SHIT UP, YO!!!!111!!!!eleven!!!! (I'm summarising)

Was that the JH one?

I thought that was a fairly well considered and sensible motion (wouldn't have seemed out of place coming from solfed for example), pushing for direct action not in a substitutionist way but as a fairly integrated (or at least accepted & supported) part of a wider campaign, and also not just for the sake of it in and off itself - given the make up of things it was never going to be accepted though, no matter how much it was watered down in advance to make it more palatable to the tops

 

[the button]

Aye, my summary was intended to be light-hearted. You're right, though -- the tops were never going to accept it. Although as I say, the "no direct action not ever not nohow" proposal was also defeated. I think there's a fruitful discussion to be had around a *cough* diversity of tactics, but not in that forum with that leadership.

I reckon the big risk at the moment is that the campaign becomes a fundraiser for the judicial review.

 

[ska invita]

Nice chance to throw rotten fruit at Boris as he fancies his chances in Catford, 7th March:
http://www.london.gov.uk/events/people’s-question-time-lewisham

 

[smokedout]

Was that the JH one?

I thought that was a fairly well considered and sensible motion (wouldn't have seemed out of place coming from solfed for example), pushing for direct action not in a substitutionist way but as a fairly integrated (or at least accepted & supported) part of a wider campaign, and also not just for the sake of it in and off itself - given the make up of things it was never going to be accepted though, no matter how much it was watered down in advance to make it more palatable to the tops

see I decided not to come to the meeting cos i knew that would happen and id probably have behaved badly. the legal route is obviously worth pursuing, but without an escalation of tactics we will lose, end of, everyone must know that - I dont get the feeling the campaign in anyway represents the people who were on the march or who live round here - it was noticeable that at the kershaw demo, he was really fucking mobbed, both in and on the way out when a large police contingent had turned up to escort him, people still chased him down the road shouting scum and when the coppers got a bit physical (and only a bit) a significant number turned on the police - it was obvious the people from the campaign were uncomfortable with this

i think this needs to be resolved as a matter of urgency, mostly cos im a bit pissed, but if people want to organise outside of the campaign, as respectfully as possible, then we should start doing so imo

 

[smokedout]

and whilst im on one - these meetings are invisible in catford, or anywhere else in the borough. the first public meetings was so busy people couldnt even get into the overflow venue, now they are only available to those in the know - on the website under how to get involved it says

There are LOTS of ways you can join the Save Lewisham Hospital campaign! From buying our single to raise money for our campaign, sending us your stories – and most of all by watching this space – after Hunt’s decision the campaign continues!

'our' single being very fucking telling

and then if thats not enough

We are a community campaign to save our hospital and we always want more people to get involved. We especially need people to help distribute leaflets

so thats it, send us money or hand out leaflets, no way in for local people to be involved in the decision making, just let the professional politicos and labour party stooges run this campaign and be good little plebs whilst we fuck it up and your hospital closes

fuck that

 

[smokedout]

Nice chance to throw rotten fruit at Boris as he fancies his chances in Catford, 7th March:
http://www.london.gov.uk/events/people’s-question-time-lewisham

this could be a turning point if it can avoid being a stage managed penned in protest

 

[Badgers]

I was at Kings College Hospital yesterday and the staff are really worried. They simply do not have the resources or the space to cope with the upcoming closure of Lewisham

 

[ska invita]

I was at Kings College Hospital yesterday and the staff are really worried. They simply do not have the resources or the space to cope with the upcoming closure of Lewisham

what would be great if people from camberwell + woolwich and bromley all got involved in the campaign - from a point of pure self interest they will all be as affected as anyone in lewisham

 

[Badgers]

what would be great if people from camberwell + woolwich and bromley all got involved in the campaign - from a point of pure self interest they will all be as affected as anyone in lewisham

Yeah, Kings College Hospital is great and offer as good a service as the NHS can offer giving their restrictions. They are clearly already full though so trying to fit more in there is going to break them it is so fucking sad and wrong.

 

[Dan U]

Yeah, Kings College Hospital is great and offer as good a service as the NHS can offer giving their restrictions. They are clearly already full though so trying to fit more in there is going to break them it is so fucking sad and wrong.

Yeah that is a v valid point, what extra resources are going to other hospitals in the area. Or not.

Epsom and St Helier maternity and A and E are under threat, no word on what resources would transfer to St Georges, Mayday, East Surrey or Guildford etc.

Sickeningly the local Tory MPs are up in arms about the closures, in public at least. Zero shame

 

[Maggot]

what would be great if people from camberwell + woolwich and bromley all got involved in the campaign - from a point of pure self interest they will all be as affected as anyone in lewisham

I think a lot of them are already. I'm from Bromley and went on the demo. The train I caught to the demo had large numbers of people on it heading the same way.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I went to a rally about the closing/crippling of Charing Cross and Hammersmith hospitals (a&e, icu and other things - there will be no a&e anywhere in the borough) and there were folk from the Lewisham campaign there.

 

[Badgers]

I am lucky that I can walk or get a £6ish taxi to Kings. Older or disabled people who used Lewisham are gonna be screwed. There will be a lot more ambulances called out

 

[ska invita]

Transpontine round up: Lewisham Hospital Next Steps
Links includes links to things mentioned in article
http://transpont.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/lewisham-hospital-next-steps.html

After the determination of the mass demonstrations against the threat to services at Lewisham Hospital, and the bitterness following the Government's decision to proceed with the plans, campaigners face a long fight between now and the planned implementation of closures a couple of years down the line.
But the movement definitely isn't going away. While the Council prepares a legal challenge, meetings and protests continue. On Valentines Day there was a protest outside the Department of Health, with 150 people with heart-shaped balloons (similar balloons were also tied to the railings outside the hospital).





Born in Lewisham, 16th March

The Save Lewisham Hospital campaign is holding a 'Born in Lewisham' event on the afternoon of Saturday 16th March (time TBC). They say: 'If you, your children, your sister of brother, your partner or anyone you know was born in Lewisham Hospital – OR if you're just passionate about saving our hospital – come along and join hands around the hospital! Other activities will be available for families and everyone!' (facebook event)

Direct Action Discussion s

As discussions continue about the best way forward, South London Solidarity Federation have arranged 'a screening of "Running Out of Patience" - a documentary on the 1986 Victoria Nurses' Strike [in Australia], part of a series of research and events looking at struggles for healthcare throughout history and asking what we can learn from them. The film will be followed by a discussion session aiming to asses how we can put these ideas of direct action into practice to save Lewisham A&E and end this disgraceful attack on the NHS'. They say: 'As government pushes through the cut to Lewisham hospital, we need to meet them with a campaign of effective collective resistanc. The campaign to save the hospital has done a fantastic job at showing the government how unpopular Kershaw's plans are, but the whole campaign depends upon the government being reasonable and listening to people's concerns. How likely is that? Hunt has proved that he will not listen to reasoned argument, his department have made a mockery of their own 'consultation' process. The only thing left to do is take action - to prove that cuts at the hospital are simply not an option we will accept. How can we make this happen?'.

The meeting will take place on Monday 4th March at UTROPHIA in Deptford High Street (across the road from the train station), 7 to 10 pm. Facebook event details

Also arguing for collective action, particularly by hospital workers, is the socialist group Alliance for Workers Liberty. Their regular Lewisham Hospital Worker bulletins are worth reading because they are not just a collection of the usual predictable leftist slogans. They include some detailed thoughtful pieces written by, among others, a nurse at Lewisham Hospital, which highlight the difficult position facing staff. For instance the latest issue discusses the conflict between implementing cuts and health professionals' duty of care to patients:

'within the next few months frontline staff are likely to receive orders to start implementing the cuts. Those orders will be in conflict with our duty of care tp patients. When this happens we will be put in a difficult situati We can either follow management orders and risk losing our PIN, or make a judgement based on the best interests of our patients, defy management and risk disciplinary action. Each of us will have to make a decision. But saying“my manager told me to do it” is no justification in the eyes of the NMC or GMC.... There is no clinical justification for their closure programme; as trusted health professionals we should take no part in it. When you get home tonight we suggest you brush off your old copy of the NMC Code of Conduct or Good Medical Practice and let’s get a conversation going about how we, the staff at Lewisham Hospital, can collectively commit to the highest possible professional standards - regardless of what plans they are cooking up for us in the corridors of power'.

Lewisham Hospital is Still Open!

In the mean time, everyone needs to spread the word that Lewisham Hospital remains fully open! It seems some people locally might have misunderstood that services were already being closed down. They are not.