hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
To be fair, it seems to me like they're still doing regular outreach work, which is something.
Energy Prices: Don't Pay Campaign
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
New Mardy Workers article on Don't Pay, pretty good imo:
www.angryworkers.org
Reflections on Don’t Pay - Angry Workers
There were moments when the early months of Don’t Pay were exhilarating to be a part of. Local groups were proliferating everywhere. Social media channels exploding. Heaving crowds at festivals and train stations not only knew about the campaign but wanted stacks of the flyers to share for...
www.angryworkers.org
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
The closing statement, or something:
dontpay.uk
A thousand new beginnings — Don't Pay
All it took was a few people, a simple website and a bit of cash pooled together to print some leaflets. 12 months ago, we launched Don’t Pay – and it caught fire. We know we’re not where we were back then. We’ve all participated in a profound demonstration of grassroots power but, today, the...
dontpay.uk
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
On the ancient principle that even a stopped clock is right twice a day, Mardy Workers are spot on for once and a lot more accurate than Don't Pay's own viewNew Mardy Workers article on Don't Pay, pretty good imo:
Reflections on Don’t Pay - Angry Workers
There were moments when the early months of Don’t Pay were exhilarating to be a part of. Local groups were proliferating everywhere. Social media channels exploding. Heaving crowds at festivals and train stations not only knew about the campaign but wanted stacks of the flyers to share for...
You do realise the two groups might be the same people?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
But they're totally not! You do seem a bit weirdly convinced that there's political groups secretly behind everything?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Imagine knowing they're 'totally not' without being politically connected enough to know that!
The mind boggles
You're being very weird you know? Nobody has denied people aren't 'politically connected' (whatever the fuck that means) but you seem to be convinced about something that's not true.
And AW and DP are not at all the same group (although a couple of AWs did a bit of local DP stuff in their areas) nor is Plan C which you seem to have been a bit convinced was behind it all a while ago.
And have also avoided the question about what you mean by 'grassroots' and how useful it is when judging the political soundness and usefullness of a project.
Elpenor
a clown’s heart and a mandolin
Full communism starts July 1st, action packs are in the post now
savoloysam
Pigman's pigman's ha ha charade you are..
Fucked. Definitely fucked.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
You could read the articles? And how are you judging it? And accepting it didn't make things worse, so on some level it could only have made no difference or at the very least some things better, even if it didn't achieve all of its aims.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
It went very well. It toppled the Truss government as it was their two-year £2500 energy price guarantee which most spooked the bond markets. She had to U-turn on it but such was the public pressure that Hunt reinstated it - he reduced the time period but felt unable to raise the cap level.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Of all the claims that Don't Pay made, the one that they had ANYTHING to do with the fall of the Truss Govt is the most unbelievable. You might as well claim that people blamed her for killing Brenda or that me putting out the wheelie bins on the wrong week had jinxed her.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah the DP closing statement which mentions that and then references a Novara article by Keir Milburn is not the most convincing argument.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The article makes some valid points ( although it plays down the contribution of Militant, SWP , other left groups and Labour activists in the Poll Tax) However they try and cover too much, I have yet to read an article by Angry Workers that manages to be concise and to the point.New Mardy Workers article on Don't Pay, pretty good imo:
Reflections on Don’t Pay - Angry Workers
There were moments when the early months of Don’t Pay were exhilarating to be a part of. Local groups were proliferating everywhere. Social media channels exploding. Heaving crowds at festivals and train stations not only knew about the campaign but wanted stacks of the flyers to share for...
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Fair comment, a reasonable observation on much writing from that milieu....
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I guess the broad ultra-left / leftcom / anti-State communist with anarchist tinges one? If broad isn't contradictory to the other bits!
It's a small group that coalesced around a praxis connected to some political positions, rather than it being a membership organisation with an agreed constitution or set of principles.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
The positions within the group are quite mixed rather than there being a clear line (although the writings on it from AW might give an impression it's more weighted in one direction due to a couple of dominant people and their ability and willingness to write stuff on it) and it's hard to give a clear percentage or explain the positions easily tbh. But yes, there are disagreements that I think are impossible to resolve, although not sure it matters too much.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Neither position has any ability to wield power to enact their politics on it. I also think the group formed around workplace and broader revolutionary struggle, and that is a better focus than something we can't do anything about really.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i'd disagree tbh. i don't know quite what 'broader revolutionary struggle' means but there's a vast arena outside workplace struggle that desperately needs addressing, it's not like the don't pay campaign had anything to do with workplace activism. many years ago some of the people who were involved in don't pay also proposed supermarket interventions. as someone who recently came back from a trip to the supermarket i think it's an idea which was worthwhile about 20 years ago when they suggested it, and is even more relevant now. there should be direct action about the price of food for starters. while a lot of people seem to be taking matters literally into their own hands, a campaign on this would, i feel, resonate with a great number of people who may not be confident shoplifting on their own or who might prefer to say 'this is what i can pay for this shopping, take it or leave it' as part of mass direct action. given the information you hand over when you swipe a card, this probably would need to be a cash-only option. but there are definitely avenues for activity outside the workplace and outside what most people would consider 'broader revolutionary struggle'.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I've got some sympathy for that position. I've worked alongside all sorts of people in workplace disputes or campaigns whose views on 'world politics' I haven't agreed with ( and vice versa) but who have been very good on matters closer to home. Something something about the unity of the picket line. Obviously only applies to those who see working class struggle the key to change.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
You've misunderstood what I meant as maybe I wasn't being clear. I'm not a workerist fetishist, AW very explicitly acknowledges and embraces the importance of struggles 'outside work', the book very much addresses this if you haven't read it.
Speaking for myself I think the importance of struggles in and about work is not a moral or even a philosophical or political position but a pragmatic and strategic one. Struggles outside work are important and can make huge changes in society, but are inherently weak as the power wielded doesn't fundamentally impact capitalist production which is the base form that needs to change. I personally think in the UK (and much of Europe) it's much more likely an upsurge in struggle is going to come from something not based in work, but unless it quickly links to and generalises with essential work and workers it will ultimately fail.
Insurrection and Production - Angry Workers
An empirically heavy mind-game for the debate on working class strategy: First steps in a six-month revolutionary transition period in the UK region (a nice pdf.-pamphlet layout of this text can be found here: https://subversionpress.wordpress.com/2016/10/20/insurrection-production/) Dear fellow...
www.angryworkers.org
Using that example you gave is useful; activists distributing food for free and shoplifting is great and might even gather a large scale campaign that wins some concessions. But ultimately it is very likely to be crushed. Unless it catalyses people that produce and distribute the food as they're the ones that both wield the power now, and have the collective knowledge to manage it through any revolutionary transition into a world where it's produced, distributed and used according to need.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i disagree. i think that a great difficulty struggles outside work have is trying to turn what was a single campaign into something more general. if you take the poll tax, for example, the congregation of activists which took place was rarely turned into any longer lasting association or solidarity group. haringey managed it. there was a proposal that camden stop the poll tax become a solidarity group but while the anarchists involved agreed the marxists (of a range of stripes) didn't. the difficulty with work-based struggles is that they're so often siloed one from another, not only by trade union legislation but by the way people so often identify with their workplace or their sector - in that sense the thatcherite anti-union legislation has worked particularly well.You've misunderstood what I meant as maybe I wasn't being clear. I'm not a workerist fetishist, AW very explicitly acknowledges and embraces the importance of struggles 'outside work', the book very much addresses this if you haven't read it.
Speaking for myself I think the importance of struggles in and about work is not a moral or even a philosophical or political position but a pragmatic and strategic one. Struggles outside work are important and can make huge changes in society, but are inherently weak as the power wielded doesn't fundamentally impact capitalist production which is the base form that needs to change. I personally think in the UK (and much of Europe) it's much more likely an upsurge in struggle is going to come from something not based in work, but unless it quickly links to and generalises with essential work and workers it will ultimately fail.
Insurrection and Production - Angry Workers
An empirically heavy mind-game for the debate on working class strategy: First steps in a six-month revolutionary transition period in the UK region (a nice pdf.-pamphlet layout of this text can be found here: https://subversionpress.wordpress.com/2016/10/20/insurrection-production/) Dear fellow...
Using that example you gave is useful; activists distributing food for free and shoplifting is great and might even gather a large scale campaign that wins some concessions. But ultimately it is very likely to be crushed. Unless it catalyses people that produce and distribute the food as they're the ones that both wield the power now, and have the collective knowledge to manage it through any revolutionary transition into a world where it's produced, distributed and used according to need.
i've just had a quick look through the aw document, and in the skim i gave it have undoubtedly missed much i'll see later. however, there seems a belief that things will almost take care of themselves, rather than preparing a while in advance. the barcelona anarchists were under no such illusions as 'ready for revolution' (Ready for Revolution) makes clear. similarly, the fenians and the irish volunteers took steps to prepare insurrection. and the shining path took about 10 years to prepare the ground before launching their armed struggle. no matter the form of revolutionary politics you espouse, it makes sense to start preparing for how predictable future situations may be approached a while in advance, even if these preparations are now little more than reading and understanding the broad thrusts of how things may develop, how the state is organised, what tactics may be anticipated.
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