Energy Prices: Don't Pay Campaign

[LDC]

i disagree. i think that a great difficulty struggles outside work have is trying to turn what was a single campaign into something more general. if you take the poll tax, for example, the congregation of activists which took place was rarely turned into any longer lasting association or solidarity group. haringey managed it. there was a proposal that camden stop the poll tax become a solidarity group but while the anarchists involved agreed the marxists (of a range of stripes) didn't. the difficulty with work-based struggles is that they're so often siloed one from another, not only by trade union legislation but by the way people so often identify with their workplace or their sector - in that sense the thatcherite anti-union legislation has worked particularly well.

i've just had a quick look through the aw document, and in the skim i gave it have undoubtedly missed much i'll see later. however, there seems a belief that things will almost take care of themselves, rather than preparing a while in advance. the barcelona anarchists were under no such illusions as 'ready for revolution' (Ready for Revolution) makes clear. similarly, the fenians and the irish volunteers took steps to prepare insurrection. and the shining path took about 10 years to prepare the ground before launching their armed struggle. no matter the form of revolutionary politics you espouse, it makes sense to start preparing for how predictable future situations may be approached a while in advance, even if these preparations are now little more than reading and understanding the broad thrusts of how things may develop, how the state is organised, what tactics may be anticipated.

Re: the first paragraph, yes, nobody said it was without problems, the struggle is partly about overcoming these. And you can generalise a struggle outside work as much as you want, but unless it generalises to include workers and workplaces then it will ultimately fail, either in the throws of social upheavel or the immediate aftermath when you don't have the power to provide food, power, water, healthcare, etc.

And the second, yes preparation is key, hence organising now.

 

[The39thStep]

Were there any union branch affiliations to Don't Pay?

 

[platinumsage]

many years ago some of the people who were involved in don't pay also proposed supermarket interventions. as someone who recently came back from a trip to the supermarket i think it's an idea which was worthwhile about 20 years ago when they suggested it, and is even more relevant now. there should be direct action about the price of food for starters. while a lot of people seem to be taking matters literally into their own hands, a campaign on this would, i feel, resonate with a great number of people who may not be confident shoplifting on their own or who might prefer to say 'this is what i can pay for this shopping, take it or leave it' as part of mass direct action. given the information you hand over when you swipe a card, this probably would need to be a cash-only option. but there are definitely avenues for activity outside the workplace and outside what most people would consider 'broader revolutionary struggle'.

How would this work exactly? Supermarket margins are some of the lowest in the business world at around 3%, down from 5% a decade or two ago. All a food price campaign focused on supermarkets might do is encourage them to further pressurise their supply chains. If you think more factory farms and imported fruit is the way to go, it might be an idea I guess. If that's the best idea for a non-worker cost-of-living protest that there is, I don't think there's much hope there.

 

[Pickman's model]

How would this work exactly? Supermarket margins are some of the lowest in the business world at around 3%, down from 5% a decade or two ago. All a food price campaign focused on supermarkets might do is encourage them to further pressurise their supply chains. If you think more factory farms and imported fruit is the way to go, it might be an idea I guess. If that's the best idea for a non-worker cost-of-living protest that there is, I don't think there's much hope there.

your post is full of strawmen

 

[platinumsage]

your post is full of strawmen

Ah the favourite Urbanite way to escape from directly addressing a post.

 

[Pickman's model]

Re: the first paragraph, yes, nobody said it was without problems, the struggle is partly about overcoming these. And you can generalise a struggle outside work as much as you want, but unless it generalises to include workers and workplaces then it will ultimately fail, either in the throws of social upheavel or the immediate aftermath when you don't have the power to provide food, power, water, healthcare, etc.

And the second, yes preparation is key, hence organising now.

i don't know how well you remember the poll tax, whether you came across the 3d aspect of the campaign in its early-ish days. but there were supposed to be don't implement and don't collect parts which would obviously have been workplace-based.

turning to the question of organising now, it's a rare thing to find a group which has a strategy. you don't, i certainly don't, see many groups which have any form of medium- to long-term plan. it'd be good if there were organisations like that.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ah the favourite Urbanite way to escape from directly addressing a post.

it is directly addressing your post

 

[platinumsage]

it is directly addressing your post

You will of course now explain how your mass-action supermarket intervention idea would actually achieve any of the things you implied it would, and how direct action on food prices more broadly would be an effective strategy to address the cost of living aside from the focus on wages.

 

[Rob Ray]

Pretty sure you've had versions of this explained to you several times tbh. Is it worth yet another round of us going into detail about how direct action creates cost and inconvenience that makes profiteering less attractive, only for you to conveniently forget about the logics being used the very next time any form of protest happens? Honestly you do tend to discourage engagement when the sense is it all goes in one ear and out the other. Because I could walk over to my bookshelf and drag out some examples of historic public actions which pushed down prices by making it clear that going too far would come with serious consequences, but if you're not going to bother remembering any of it I might as well save myself the trip ...

 

[platinumsage]

Pretty sure you've had versions of this explained to you several times tbh. Is it worth yet another round of us going into detail about how direct action creates cost and inconvenience that makes profiteering less attractive, only for you to conveniently forget about the logics being used the very next time any form of protest happens? Honestly you do tend to discourage engagement when the sense is it all goes in one ear and out the other.

Who mentioned profiteering? Perhaps you didn't read my post and are tilting at a strawman, do you need explaining it to you again? Could you detail the profiteering by supermarkets, explaining how much scope there is for them to reduce prices?

Attempting to address the cost of living through direct action to reduce food prices would divert from wage struggles and end up being dispiriting as it would fail.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Won't someone think of the poor supermarkets and their shareholders.

 

[platinumsage]

Won't someone think of the poor supermarkets and their shareholders.

This is just juvenile.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is just juvenile.

Ageism isn't a good look

 

[Rob Ray]

Could you detail the profiteering by supermarkets, explaining how much scope there is for them to reduce prices?

What supermarkets have famously done historically with certain key foodstuffs is offer them as loss leaders while bumping profits in other areas, pushing down on farmers' incomes to do so. This has allowed the ruling class to maintain an illusion that the current declining purchasing power of British workers is in fact not happening while allowing profiteering (as in Tesco's headline £1 billion last year) to continue.

There's no doubt wiggle room in there for big supermarkets to make less, or even no additional profit, for subsidies to be offered, for policies to be enacted to improve the situation. From the working class perspective though this is all irrelevant – the extent of that profit margin does not matter from the perspective of people who need to eat. What we are interested in here is the provision of basics like food, heat, clothing and housing at sustainable rates. The State and private business have assured us that they are the means by which this is to be provided as their part of the social contract (social stability in return for economic stability) so it is up to them to come up with the goods. Where they break their part of the contract it is both prudent and indeed should be expected that the public will not uphold its part until that balance has been restored.

Attempting to address the cost of living through direct action to reduce food prices would divert from wage struggles and end up being dispiriting as it would fail.

I will as always take confidently expressed strategic assessments by the armchair general who only ever predicts failure with all the seriousness they deserve.

 

[platinumsage]

Ageism isn't a good look

You're right. Back when I attended SWP meetings for my sins, before the Iraq war, I never heard suggestions from 15-year old attendees that came anywhere close to some of the nonsense on these boards from from jaded armchair activists. In fact they were usually the best of the bunch, proving that the longer you stay active in left-wing protest the more out-of touch with reality you become.

 

[Rob Ray]

armchair activists

Ooh you little hypocrite. Always trying the "I'm the grounded one" line when the closest you're coming to a picket line these days is your own back garden. Wah wah activism never achieves anything - put your feet up and stop spending your time whinging about what other people are doing then, if you're so down on useless activity.

 

[platinumsage]

What supermarkets have famously done historically with certain key foodstuffs is offer them as loss leaders while bumping profits in other areas, pushing down on farmers' incomes to do so. This has allowed the ruling class to maintain an illusion that the current declining purchasing power of British workers is in fact not happening while allowing profiteering (as in Tesco's headline £1 billion last year) to continue. There's no doubt wiggle room in there for big supermarkets to make less, or even no additional profit,

There we go, "profiteering". Tesco made around 1 billion pre-tax profit last year, but that was on 65.3 billion revenue, a margin of 1.5%. How does that compare to inflation and what sort of reduction in that margin could direct action campaign realistically achieve?

for subsidies to be offered, for policies to be enacted to improve the situation. From the working class perspective though this is all irrelevant – the extent of that profit margin does not matter from our perspective as people who need to eat. What we are interested in is the provision of basics like food, heat, clothing and housing at sustainable rates. The State and private business have assured us that they are the means by which this is to be provided as their part of the social contract (social stability in return for economic stability) it is up to them to do so. Where they break their part of the contract it is both prudent and indeed should be expected that the public does not uphold its part until that balance has been restored.

You're going to love how Volcker and Thatcher reduced inflation in the 80s, perhaps you should protest for some of that?

 

[Rob Ray]

There we go, "profiteering"

Of course continuing to make £1 billion in profit during a period where food prices have doubled is profiteering - what do you think "profit" is? They don't have a God-given right to keep building up their pot regardless of what's happening around them, that's the sort of excuse-making I'd expect from a sniveling corporate quisling ffs.

You're going to love how Volcker and Thatcher reduced inflation in the 80s, perhaps you should protest for some that?

If that glib shit is what your brain retains no wonder we keep having to re-explain things to you. Seriously how on Earth you've come to the conclusion that you know how best to get shit done is beyond me – you can't even do a complaint to the management properly, and instead spend your time pumping out dross on an unrelated bulletin board.

 

[platinumsage]

Of course continuing to make £1 billion in profit during a period where food prices have doubled is profiteering - what do you think "profit" is? They don't have a God-given right to keep building up their pot regardless of what's happening around them, that's the sort of excuse-making I'd expect from a sniveling corporate quisling ffs.

You don't even know what profiteering means, it doesn't mean making a profit ffs. Your level of understanding is such that I see you've started resorting to insults. Am I also a bootlicker, and a lickspittle by any chance?

 

[Rob Ray]

it doesn't mean making a profit ffs.

Jfc you absolute idiot.

Am I also a bootlicker, and a lickspittle by any chance?

Just a fool.

 

[The39thStep]

Run out and find me a 15 year old child I can't make head or tail of it.

 

[newme]

It went very well. It toppled the Truss government as it was their two-year £2500 energy price guarantee which most spooked the bond markets. She had to U-turn on it but such was the public pressure that Hunt reinstated it - he reduced the time period but felt unable to raise the cap level.

She got beat by a lettuce.

 

[Serge Forward]

Am I also a bootlicker, and a lickspittle by any chance?

Yes.

 

[1927]

You don't even know what profiteering means, it doesn't mean making a profit ffs. Your level of understanding is such that I see you've started resorting to insults. Am I also a bootlicker, and a lickspittle by any chance?

The £1b was before tax too. Hardly profiteering.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

What is this whackamoron

 

[Red Sky]

Don’t Pay: what happened and what can be learned?

Responding to the spike in energy prices, the Don’t Pay campaign threatening mass non-payment of bills had significant success in 2022. As the cost-of-living crisis deepens, SIMON HOWARD looks for lessons

morningstaronline.co.uk

 

[hitmouse]

Good article.