Lambeth Housing In Meltdown - Massive Rent Rises On The Way

[melmaloney]

Random Twat

Definitely!

Odd ideas about society today, and has problems counting up to ten!

If you live in council housing -

4. If you lived in many countries in the world, you would have nothing and would have to fend for yourself.

5. Most people living in such countries (and many in this country) would be very happy to live in the comfort that you enjoy.

7. You are in no position to demand anything. Remember you are in a minority, that the economy is in recession, and that there are millions on council waiting lists all over England.

 

[Winot]

Forgive my ignorance, but is there such thing as a union/pressure group for those living in council housing? It strikes me that such a body might offer a good way of influencing councillors without having to stand yourself (I realise there are residents' associations for particular blocks but I'm thing of something Borough-wide).

 

[brixtonworker]

Neighbourhood housing offices have already been closed down all over the borough, and if any more front line staff are sacked the service will collapse.

Time now to get rid of some of those senior officers on £70kpa +, who. with idle, over-paid and uncaring councillors, are principally responsible for the mess we are in.

How much is still being paid to consultants?

Why do we need them at all?

I read somewhere that Lambeth's housing department spends £4 million a year on consultants. The top consultants get paid something like £1,000 a day to ruin tenants' lives.

There's absolutely no need for consultants except in some very limited situations. Rather than develop staff and encourage them to go for top jobs, the council sacks them and gives the work to mercenaries who don't give two hoots about Lambeth. It's sickening!!!

 

[brixtonworker]

Forgive my ignorance, but is there such thing as a union/pressure group for those living in council housing? It strikes me that such a body might offer a good way of influencing councillors without having to stand yourself (I realise there are residents' associations for particular blocks but I'm thing of something Borough-wide).

There's a national Defend Council Housing campaign which has done some good work and continues to fight battles against privatisation as well as making the political case for direct investment in council housing - www.defendcouncilhousing.org.uk

There was a local DCH group active in Lambeth around the time of the ALMO ballot, but it seems to have disappeared from view. Perhaps now would be the time to resurrect it??

By the way, I take it everyone saw the SLP article about upcoming job cuts?
http://www.southlondonpress.co.uk/tn/news.cfm?id=20911

 

[melmaloney]

Random twat

No, just some random twat I believe.

Much more likely to be a dodgy housing manager.

Some of those who were brought up in council housing and really hate tenants (as this one surely does).

Did you know that they have already threatened to exclude councillors and "troublemakers" from meetings of Area Housing Forums and now want to prevent the Chairs of Tenant and Leasholder Council - the 2 elected resident representative bodies - from speaking at the Tenants' Conference on 15th. November.

It seems fairly obvious that they think that the sort of people who live on council estates aren't fit to have a say in how their homes are managed. So much for tenant participation!

 

[brixtonworker]

Did you know that they have already threatened to exclude councillors and "troublemakers" from meetings of Area Housing Forums and now want to prevent the Chairs of Tenant and Leasholder Council - the 2 elected resident representative bodies - from speaking at the Tenants' Conference on 15th. November.

It seems fairly obvious that they think that the sort of people who live on council estates aren't fit to have a say in how their homes are managed. So much for tenant participation!

I think there's going to be a big demonstration outside the residents' conference - and quite a few angry people inside too!

 

[hendo]

If you live in council housing -

1. You must be very idle, very stupid, or hopelessly inadequate or you would have got your act together and have a place of your own.

Superb first post. Imagine going to all the trouble to register - just to post that! The mind boggles.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If you live in council housing -

1. You must be very idle, very stupid, or hopelessly inadequate or you would have got your act together and have a place of your own.

Conversely you could, like me, be industrious, reasonably well-educated, and adequate enough for your mother, but have become disabled in the service of your country, but carried on working until your body started to fall apart, and then needed social housing because you were told by several consultants in your conditions that you'd never be able to sustain a day's work again, except at your own pace (which is what I do).
Nice recourse to caricature, though. It's always nice to know that ssome people can't think for themselves beyond that kind of thing. Well done you!

2. Even if you paid twice as much for the place in which you now live, you would not be unlikely to find comparable accommodation with a private landlord on similar terms, and it is unlikely that you could afford to buy a place of your own.

You don't have a particularly grounded idea about the economics of supply and demand, or about the difference between a secure tenancy and an "assured shorthold" tenancy, do you?

3. The place in which you live (and probably everything else that you have) has been paid for by the work of others, who pay for it out of their taxes

Really? How would you know?
Ah, I see, it's the caricature again!

4. If you lived in many countries in the world, you would have nothing and would have to fend for yourself.

If "we" lived in "many" countries of the world we'd be covered by similar social safety nets. What's your point?

5. Most people living in such countries (and many in this country) would be very happy to live in the comfort that you enjoy.

I'm sure that's a lovely platitude, but like most platitudes it says more about the person saying it than anything else.
Tell me, how often do you use the expression "I'd have given my eye-teeth..." per day?

7. You are in no position to demand anything. Remember you are in a minority, that the economy is in recession, and that there are millions on council waiting lists all over England.

I suggest you read Locke and Hobbes, and get some idea about mutual obligation, and some British constitutional law, so that you have some idea why even the lowliest among us has the right to demand (although not the right to have the demand fulfilled) whatever we like.
As for recession, who's fault is that? Mostly the sort of person who spouts the kind of caricature crap you have above, in my (long and doleful) experience. The sort of person to whom altruism is an alien concept.

So why don't you all shut up, enjoy the good things that you have been given, and show some respect towards those people who work hard to provide them for you - housing officers, councillors, and the people who work to pay for their own homes and pay taxes to pay for yours. You could be a lot worse off.

Why don't you shut up until you've actually got an argument or set of arguments that aren't culled directly from the utterances of Richard Littlejohn and his ilk, there's a good fellow?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Superb first post. Imagine going to all the trouble to register - just to post that! The mind boggles.

I love it when mouth-breathers froth at the mouth.

There's always the possibility that they'll drown on their own saliva, you see.

 

[onemansview]

I wrote my original post because I believed that it was important to give readers a balanced view, the one held by the majority of decent law-abiding people in this country, who work hard to provide for themselves and their families, to pay their taxes and to better themselves.

The anonymous contributors to this thread certainly do not represent the views of that majority, but are surely those of troublemakers and agitators with political axes to grind - the sort of people who are members of movements like Respect, DCH, WRP, CND, the Communist Party, anarchists, and other unrealistic hard-line extremist groups.

Think about what 'melmaloner' and 'violent pander' are saying to you. It does not help anyone to make them discontent with what they have in life. Look also at the way that these people describe themselves, and at their violent attacks on the people that are trying to help them. It is typical of such people that they would suggest boycotting the residents' housing conference. The last thing that they want is reasoned (or reasonable) discussion. These people are not your true friends.

Officers and Council Members are seldom popular; but they are doing the best that they can, often under very dificult circumstances, and should not be subjected to violent abuse for their effort. Try, just for once, to understand their frustration and the irritation that they might feel when they read such offensive claptrap.

Anyway, if you feel that you could do their job so much better, and are genuinely so interested in improving the lives of your fellow residents, why are you not doing it? That way you could make some useful contribution to society, instead of attempting to destroy constructive attempts to improve it.

 

[colacubes]

I wrote my original post because I believed that it was important to give readers a balanced view, the one held by the majority of decent law-abiding people in this country, who work hard to provide for themselves and their families, to pay their taxes and to better themselves.

The anonymous contributors to this thread certainly do not represent the views of that majority, but are surely those of troublemakers and agitators with political axes to grind - the sort of people who are members of movements like Respect, DCH, WRP, CND, the Communist Party, anarchists, and other unrealistic hard-line extremist groups.

Think about what 'melmaloner' and 'violent pander' are saying to you. It does not help anyone to make them discontent with what they have in life. Look also at the way that these people describe themselves, and at their violent attacks on the people that are trying to help them. It is typical of such people that they would suggest boycotting the residents' housing conference. The last thing that they want is reasoned (or reasonable) discussion. These people are not your true friends.

Officers and Council Members are seldom popular; but they are doing the best that they can, often under very dificult circumstances, and should not be subjected to violent abuse for their effort. Try, just for once, to understand their frustration and the irritation that they might feel when they read such offensive claptrap.

Anyway, if you feel that you could do their job so much better, and are genuinely so interested in improving the lives of your fellow residents, why are you not doing it? That way you could make some useful contribution to society, instead of attempting to destroy constructive attempts to improve it.

lol

 

[ViolentPanda]

I wrote my original post because I believed that it was important to give readers a balanced view, the one held by the majority of decent law-abiding people in this country, who work hard to provide for themselves and their families, to pay their taxes and to better themselves.

Care to elucidate as to how your view is "balanced", in what way it represents "the majority of decent law-abiding people in this country", and how you have quantified this "majority"?
I ask because I suspect that you're talking through your hat.

The anonymous contributors to this thread certainly do not represent the views of that majority, but are surely those of troublemakers and agitators with political axes to grind...

"Surely"?
I sense that you're projecting your preconceptions, rather than addressing reality.

- the sort of people who are members of movements like Respect, DCH, WRP, CND, the Communist Party, anarchists, and other unrealistic hard-line extremist groups.

I'm not a member of any "hard-line extremist groups", although I was a Scout in my youth.
Mind you, anyone who believes that CND, terminally fluffy as it was, was comprised of "hard-line extremists" doesn't have the best purchase on rational discourse, in my experience. The last person I recall trying to fly that kite was "The Freedom Association", whose own membership were far more "hard-line" than anything CND ever mustered.
Of course, I suspect that rightist extremism is fine by you.

Think about what 'melmaloner' and 'violent pander' are saying to you.

A bit of polite advice:
The FAQs for this site (which you have confirmed that you have read during the sigh-up procedure, or you wouldn't be able to post) specifically make clear that pissing around with the usernames of posters is unacceptable behaviour.
So, if you can't play the ball, resist playing the man, there's a good chap.

It does not help anyone to make them discontent with what they have in life. Look also at the way that these people describe themselves, and at their violent attacks on the people that are trying to help them.

"Violent"?
Do you live in a parallel world where words have different meanings?
As for people trying to "help" me, who are you referring to, and why do you think you know better than I (or my physicians and surgeon) what's best for me?
Spare me your blunderbuss rhetoric and address the issues I've raised, if you can.

It is typical of such people that they would suggest boycotting the residents' housing conference. The last thing that they want is reasoned (or reasonable) discussion. These people are not your true friends.

Have you actually ever attended such a conference, or even something similar here in Mother Lambeth? It's a sad truth of our times that more "reasoned discussion" comes from the floor than it does from the platform, where dogmatism tends to hold sway.

Officers and Council Members are seldom popular; but they are doing the best that they can, often under very dificult circumstances, and should not be subjected to violent abuse for their effort. Try, just for once, to understand their frustration and the irritation that they might feel when they read such offensive claptrap.

Unfortunately, abuse is part of the working day of most civil servants. I remember it well.
As for council members (they really don't need capitalisation, they're not that important), their "job" is to represent their constituents. If they don't do so, then a little abuse should ginger them up to do their job properly rather than meekly accepting whipping, don't you think?

Anyway, if you feel that you could do their job so much better, and are genuinely so interested in improving the lives of your fellow residents, why are you not doing it? That way you could make some useful contribution to society, instead of attempting to destroy constructive attempts to improve it.

How do you know what any of us do?
The answer, of course, is that you don't. You're relying on your simplistic assumptions that people who dissent can't possibly contribute.
Such an assumption is the work of a naif at best, an idiot at worst.

 

[Winot]

Bravo.

 

[_angel_]

Superb first post. Imagine going to all the trouble to register - just to post that! The mind boggles.

Heh. Reminds me of the girl who's house I was cleaning for a bargain basement rate, explaining loudly to me how council tenants didn't deserve their houses.... think actually the point I wouldn't have been there doing a job for her for next to nothing did finally dawn on her and she shut up..

 

[_angel_]

One point - that council house dwellers somehow have their rents paid by 'the taxpayer'.. it's not only untrue but the otherway round. Council tenants pay a quarter of their rents direct to central government....

Meanwhile, Leeds council tenants are paying about a quarter of their rent straight to the government and never see the benefit in repairs or better services.

http://www.leedstenants.org.uk/FairRents.htm

As far as being in a minority or 'idle' or whatever.. certainly in Leeds council tenants are not in a minority - there are plenty of us and far too many to fit into one lazy stereotype.

 

[Dan U]

One point - that council house dwellers somehow have their rents paid by 'the taxpayer'.. it's not only untrue but the otherway round. Council tenants pay a quarter of their rents direct to central government....



http://www.leedstenants.org.uk/FairRents.htm

As far as being in a minority or 'idle' or whatever.. certainly in Leeds council tenants are not in a minority - there are plenty of us and far too many to fit into one lazy stereotype.

is that true for all councils or just part of the subsidy calculations performed in the Housing Revenue Account?

iirc some Boroughs end up claiming extra money from central govt and some Boroughs end up paying money back.

it's a massively complicated formula.

 

[melmaloney]

One man and his silly views!

Poor man! He probably works for Lambeth Housing, and it has turned his mind.

I am surprised that he has not made snide remarks about the sort of woman who brings up three children on their own. You know the sort of thing - "Are they all by the same man?"

Pity really! (I am a widow.) Got you there, eh?

Couldn't be much fun being married to such a person!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Poor man! He probably works for Lambeth Housing, and it has turned his mind.

If he works for Lambeth Housing, let's hope it's not in a significant role, given that he appears to be absolutely chock-full of bitterness and prejudice.

I am surprised that he has not made snide remarks about the sort of woman who brings up three children on their own. You know the sort of thing - "Are they all by the same man?"

Well, it's not really in context to the subject unless someone introduces the old "most council homes are occupied by single mums" canard, and that particular bit of received wisdom has been proven wrong just about every time it's trotted out.
Of course, we do hear an awful lot about that sort of thing in the media, but that's because it's till uncommon enough to sensationalise about. If it were as prevalent as some social conservatives would have us believe, then it would hardly be quite so "shocking", would it?

Pity really! (I am a widow.) Got you there, eh?

Couldn't be much fun being married to such a person!

Depends if they share the same world-view, I suppose.

 

[onemansview]

If he works for Lambeth Housing, let's hope it's not in a significant role, given that he appears to be absolutely chock-full of bitterness and prejudice.

Well, it's not really in context to the subject unless someone introduces the old "most council homes are occupied by single mums" canard, and that particular bit of received wisdom has been proven wrong just about every time it's trotted out.
Of course, we do hear an awful lot about that sort of thing in the media, but that's because it's till uncommon enough to sensationalise about. If it were as prevalent as some social conservatives would have us believe, then it would hardly be quite so "shocking", would it?

Depends if they share the same world-view, I suppose.

I really am surprised that supposedly intelligent people could hold such views!

 

[_angel_]

is that true for all councils or just part of the subsidy calculations performed in the Housing Revenue Account?

iirc some Boroughs end up claiming extra money from central govt and some Boroughs end up paying money back.

it's a massively complicated formula.

Not sure..I think it's all tenants to some extent, but certainly the Leeds tenants discovered 1/4 of rent goes straight to central government.

My house must be about 1960s at least.. I would have thought it had been paid for by now, in terms of rental lettings over the years.

When people whinge about council tenants they don't realise - most work - but can't afford to live anywhere else. If Leeds council tenants disappeared from the city tomorrow I think it would struggle to keep going... but also they're often the only places anyone sick, disabled or unemployed can afford to live - most private landlords don't take DSS and people moaning about paying for benefits ought to at least realise they're paying an awful lot less than for someone in an expensive private house.

 

[Dan U]

people moaning about paying for benefits ought to at least realise they're paying an awful lot less than for someone in an expensive private house.

fuck yeah.

the Borough i work for has very little available council housing. we are having to set up Rent Deposit schemes to help people coming out of other schemes (care, ex offenders shemes etc) who would historically have got a council house but now can't - so we are helping them to rent privately, normally out of borough due to rental prices in our borough.

the money these landlords are stinging us for to take these people is a disgrace. but they hold the property. and this is even via a HA negoiating for several boroughs in theory to save money.

some are asking for £'000s up front - much much more than a normal charge for deposits etc.

 

[_angel_]

fuck yeah.

the Borough i work for has very little available council housing. we are having to set up Rent Deposit schemes to help people coming out of other schemes (care, ex offenders shemes etc) who would historically have got a council house but now can't - so we are helping them to rent privately, normally out of borough due to rental prices in our borough.

the money these landlords are stinging us for to take these people is a disgrace. but they hold the property. and this is even via a HA negoiating for several boroughs in theory to save money.

some are asking for £'000s up front - much much more than a normal charge for deposits etc.

Yep. But it's always the tenant/ person claiming help with their rent that gets the label 'scrounger' while the landlords do very nicely indeed.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I really am surprised that supposedly intelligent people could hold such views!

I'm unsurprised that you've chosen not to address any of the substantive points I've made.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yep. But it's always the tenant/ person claiming help with their rent that gets the label 'scrounger' while the landlords do very nicely indeed.

Back when I privately rented for a 5 years in the late 80s and early 90s, I was made redundant about halfway through my tenure.
That was when I found out that the monthly rent I had paid my landlord was far cheaper (by around £140 a month) than the rent my landlord decided to charge Lambeth while I was looking for a new job.
Now, my landlord was seen as a respectable businessman, a "pillar of the community" member of the local Chamber of Commerce type, rather than a fly-by-night chancer, so if he pulled flankers, how many other supposedly respectable landlords were doing so, too?

Still, Housing Benefit fraud by landlords has historically been an area of benefit fraud that doesn't get tackled. Even Lambeth's "Council Anti-Fraud Team", who did a bit of good work, didn't get very far on that one.

 

[_angel_]

Back when I privately rented for a 5 years in the late 80s and early 90s, I was made redundant about halfway through my tenure.
That was when I found out that the monthly rent I had paid my landlord was far cheaper (by around £140 a month) than the rent my landlord decided to charge Lambeth while I was looking for a new job.
Now, my landlord was seen as a respectable businessman, a "pillar of the community" member of the local Chamber of Commerce type, rather than a fly-by-night chancer, so if he pulled flankers, how many other supposedly respectable landlords were doing so, too?

Still, Housing Benefit fraud by landlords has historically been an area of benefit fraud that doesn't get tackled. Even Lambeth's "Council Anti-Fraud Team", who did a bit of good work, didn't get very far on that one.

I know it was in 'The Sun' but that landlord renting out the seven bedder for how much??!! seemed like a particularly bad example.

Basically this crap wouldn't happen if there were enough council houses.

If the recession has done one good thing it's halting the demolition of perfectly good council housing in Leeds (and suspended the right to buy)

 

[melmaloney]

Lambeth housing and its problems

While I agree with the views of Violent Panda, DanU, Angel and Winot, we are begining to stray from the subject of this thread: mismanagement in Lambeth Housing and its ALMOs, and the threatened enormous rent increases, which are likely to be disasterous to many residents.

Perhaps it might be more effective for posters on other matters to start threads of their own?

Just a suggestion, but the main heading is 'Places > Brixton', so I imagine that most readers are likely to be Lambeth residents, seeking information on what is happening to their homes in Lambeth. I do believe in tenant participation and don't want to be a tyrant!

 

[ViolentPanda]

The local lib-dems seem to be going on a postal offensive to let locals know about the ramifications of the "shortfall", going by the circular I got through the letterbox today.
Good on 'em says I. People need to know who's responsible for the repairs that won't get done, the renovations that'll be postponed, the ever longer waits at Olive Morris House or the local housing office, and they need to know that some of this shit was avoidable.

 

[brixtonworker]

Not sure..I think it's all tenants to some extent, but certainly the Leeds tenants discovered 1/4 of rent goes straight to central government.

From the Defend Council Housing web site
http://www.defendcouncilhousing.org...iewCouncilHousingFinanceInitialSubmission.pdf

Government robs money from council housing in two ways:

Firstly it collects more in rents than it pays in allowances to local authorities to enable them to manage, maintain (M&M) and carry out major repairs (MRA) to our homes. The ‘Moonlight Robbery Campaign’ estimates, from answers to Parliamentary Questions, that this amounts to more than £19 billion since 1997. Secondly, government takes 75% of the capital receipt from ‘right to buy’ sales and has benefited from stock transfer receipts.

In 2008/09 each tenant will pay £3,120 per home in rent (£6.4 billion according to the HRA Review team) but only receive £2,391 per home (£4.7 billion national total) back in services. Government lets councils keep just £1,720 per home (£3.4 billion) for management and maintenance and £671 (£1.3 billion) for major repairs.

Nationally, this means the government will rob tenants to the tune of £1.7 billion this year, and it’s increasing (Figures from DCLG subsidy determination 2008/2009).

“Receipts from the Right-to-Buy sales of council housing that have yielded around £45 billion – only a quarter has been recycled into improving public housing.” (Joseph Rowntree Foundation 01/12/05). Stock transfer has produced £6.08 billion ‘Total Transfer Price’– money which comes from council housing and should have been reinvested in council housing (UK Housing Review 2006/7)​

Some info on the job cuts in Lambeth: 80+ jobs to go in Lambeth Living, more in the Service Centre, housing legal team and what is left of the old housing department. There will be more job cuts in the coming year as Lambeth Living moves to "Partnering" contracts, where private contractors have free reign over services on ten-year £1 billion-plus deals.

Already the concierge service is being cut back by half, from a 16 hour a day service to daytime only - with tenants and leasehodlers paying the same price for this service as they did before.

And tenants are expected to pay an extra £14 a week rent for all this from April 2009!

The Lambeth Living residents conference will take place at the Town Hall on 15 November. In the past, this has always been organised by Tenants Council and Leaseholders Council, and has been one of the best attended residents conferences in London, if not the UK. This time, Lambeth Living management tore up the agenda that they had agreed with TC and LC and said that the Chair of TC couldn't chair the conference!

They are desperately trying to make amends now, but the damage has been done: it is clear to see how much Lambeth Living values the democratically-elected representatives of tenants and leaseholders. What's more, Lambeth Living staff, who I'm sure would have a lot to say about what is going on, have been banned from attending the conference!

 

[ViolentPanda]

They are desperately trying to make amends now, but the damage has been done: it is clear to see how much Lambeth Living values the democratically-elected representatives of tenants and leaseholders. What's more, Lambeth Living staff, who I'm sure would have a lot to say about what is going on, have been banned from attending the conference!

perhaps someone could direct them to this thread if they wish to unburden themselves?

 

[Silver_Fox]

I work for Lambeth Living and everything brixtonworker has said is true, and worse. It feels like the organisation is in total melt down, a big difference from the glossy posters and leaflets that they used to advertise the ALMO (which cost so much money).

The organisation is run by consultants on around £1000 a day, and now the Chief Consultant, Pete Redman, is off leaving the organisation in disarray, but what would he care?

Services are already cut to the bone and now they are saying there will be huge cut backs to staff. They're being very clever about this and doing it team by team in order to lessen resistance from both staff and tenants/leaseholders (or customers as Lambeth Living now calls them). And Steve Reid (the council leader, new labour) has apparently been trying to shift the blame to staff, apparently telling tenants in a recent meeting that staff in housing are rubbish and need to be replaced. Well who runs this organisation Steve and Pete (twiddle dum and twiddle dee)? Aren't you going to take any responsibility? You're meant to running the place FFS!!!

All the while the private contractors carry on absolutely fleecing the council and now Lambeth Living as well. All the staff know that lots of the work is substandard (before they sacked the handypersons they used to spend a big chunk of their time fixing work that private contractors hadn't done properly), that variation orders (extra work orders) are often added on when it's not been needed or even not been done at all (contractors must know there aren't enough staff to do post inspections and even if they do get caught out they just have to say sorry). And what are they proposing, to give private firms contracts worth up to £1 billion and tied in to 7 to 10 year contracts. Yet they won't even do a feasibility study to consider a direct labour organisation (when the services are done in house). From a lot of experience I can say 100% that a well run direct labour organisation (DLO) will always be better than a private firm because there is no profit motive.

The senior management and council leaders are now saying that massive rent rises will be needed while services for tenants and leaseholders go further down hill. You don't need a consultant on £1000 a day to tell you how bad the services are either, a quick look around Lambeth estates will be more than enough. It's sickening and heart breaking that these people are lining their pockets while running the service in to the floor and never have to take any responsibility for it.

This really is a campaign that needs to link up tenants/leaseholders/residents with staff. Hopefully there will be a big demo outside the residents meeting.

If anyone has any questions about what's going on feel free to post them on here and I'll do my best to answer them.