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Labour leadership

maomao said:
I always claim I'm going to vote SCP and end up voting Labour out of pure unadulterated fear, cursing my cowardice in the polling booth. I could probably persuade myself that voting for C-Byn was vaguely positive in some way or other.
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the price of purity is electoral irrelevance. I'm fine with that, its a rigged game anyway so Spunking Cock M-L is the way forward for me
 
DotCommunist said:
If c-byn got in and was able to push forward with a council house building scheme, well it aint the revolution is it but if it makes peoples lives a bit easier in the meantime and gives people work in the building. Thats ok. I can't rail against it. I'll never vote Labour though. They spat on us for too long. Its odd you know, I expect my elders to be more astute and yet so many are straight on the C-Wagon like its a red dawn or some shit. Fuckit, at least PMQ's mightget worth watching again. Lets see if Cam tries to out beard him by growing his own divorce beard. Or a comically long villain tash that he can twirl. Exciting times
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Probably what you'll get are heavy-handed council house managers, tight social services - very much regulated and extremely bureaucratised, further disintegration of the DWP, union bureaucracies swelling in their capacity to act and strikebreaking if we get labour in power by 2020 - we have a socialist government in power don't you know, why are you going on strike?

Like, the left wing of capital desire this because it actually enables the continued reproduction of their existence. The left subconsciously wanted the w/c to vote Thatcher en masse in 79 and thus acted as executives of the capitalist state machinery. They need to be liquidated (as in their power needs to be nullified as opposed to literally liquidated, ha) if you ask me. Everyone from Trotskyists to soc-dems to certain few (but no less vocal) anarchists and autonomists. So yeah we need to organise outside the left and unions if you ask me. It'll be a hard task, but I'd rather that than draining the sap out of people and exhausting their energies.
 
TopCat said:
By any means necessary. This Corbyn win could push back on the anti working class cunts.
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It won't. It'll only strengthen them. first as tragedy, then as farce.

The working-class voted them in for good or for bad. That's the main argument that people fail to account for. Ah but we want democracy, but this is what you'll invariably get. The type of participative democracy they talk about is impossible to implement in a system based on prices and exchange and not utility. Electable deligates won't change a friggin thing because the structures still remain and these officials get absorbed into the market firm-form of the nation state.
 
If I were part of the Corbyn campaign one of my next moves would be to emulate Podemos' brilliant use of media. They need to set up a news website, definitely a regular maybe weekly podcast, something that keeps people in touch on a day to day basis which can be shared on social media.
 
dialectician said:
It won't. It'll only strengthen them. first as tragedy, then as farce.

The working-class voted them in for good or for bad. That's the main argument that people fail to account for. We want democracy, but this is what you'll invariably get. The type of participative democracy they talk about is impossible to implement in a system based on prices and exchange and not utility. Ele ctable deligates won't change a friggin thing because the structures still remain and these officials get absorbed into the market firm-form of the nation state.
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Yes, writing angst ridden sub a-level rants on bulletin boards is definitely the way to improve the lot of the much shat-on British working classes.

Oh and:
dialectician said:
The left subconsciously wanted the w/c to vote Thatcher en masse in 79 and thus acted as executives of the capitalist state machinery.
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Fuck off.
 
dialectician said:
It won't. It'll only strengthen them. first as tragedy, then as farce.

The working-class voted them in for good or for bad. That's the main argument that people fail to account for. Ah but we want democracy, but this is what you'll invariably get. The type of participative democracy they talk about is impossible to implement in a system based on prices and exchange and not utility. Electable deligates won't change a friggin thing because the structures still remain and these officials get absorbed into the market firm-form of the nation state.
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Yeah, yeah. It's probably not the thread for you then, y'know discussing the possible. Discussing compromising, small gains etc.
 
Are you seriously telling me that you don't fear a right-wing backlash if Corbyn fails? Because that's more important to me than small compromises that are bound to fail and are impossible to implement. I'd rather be on the defensive than having to deal with a xenophobic and authoritarian right inclined British public, thank you very much.
 
Is Hilary Benn still a thing? He was a nonentity even by Blairite standards, I kinda thought he'd have simply stopped existing by now through sheer lack of anyone giving a shit one way or another.
 
Santino said:
Corba the Dread
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J to the bizzle
his beard is grizzle
Smashin his foes
Rallies only treelover knows

Young people the grist to the mill
get ready to swalla a soc/dec pill

You can't touch corbyns swag. Its so swag nye bevan is all 'hold up ey! to mah brother who be yakkin to hard, please don't play'

and so on
 
dialectician said:
Well, it's true. Even that strikebreaking icon Tony Benn (beloved to so many people I won't understand why) served the state, not the w/c. Sending in the army to break strikes in 76, indeed.
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One point, however, should be clarified. It is often claimed that Benn prepared troops to break a strike at the Windscale nuclear plant. The truth seems to be rather more complex:


Brian Sedgemore, in his recent book The Secret Constitution (1980), points out that when Tony Benn was Minister of Energy during a strike at Windscale, his civil servants informed him that unless troops were used to move nitrogen across a picket line a “critical nuclear explosion would take place”. Sedgemore diplomatically comments that these warnings were “unfounded”. The Civil Contingencies Unit at the Cabinet Office had prepared a plan “to break the strike with troops, thus leaving Tony Benn as a sort of latter-day Churchill” – The Times, 29 May 1980


Thus it would appear that Benn was set up by civil servants, something which doubtless helped to inspire his later recognition of the power of the state. Yet his only response was to keep his head down and stay in office, believing he could achieve more inside the government than outside appealing to the rank-and-file.
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Dialectician, just put that quote into a search engine to trace the source.
 
Hocus Eye. said:



Dialectician, just put that quote into a search engine to trace the source.
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Yup, as I thought, This garbage from the post-SWP confessional Trot sects
Of course they're going to say Benn was ill-informed, labour party entryism is a classic tactic of these people! They're hardly going to criticise their own positions are they?

Have this instead

Like I said, the left is and always will be counter-revolutionary. The Trot and post-trot sects are just a more authoritarian, beefed up and violent form of social democracy. Quoting RS21 isn't going to appease any proletarian internationalist communists if that was the intended effect idk?
 
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I've just seen this on Twitter. :D


COpcKOTWcAAvseX.jpg
 
dunno.

i wasn't very politically active in 1979 (i was at primary school) so not entirely sure.

i'm certainly aware that in 2010 there were some people in varying shades of 'the left' (and i'm not thinking of anyone round here) who wanted a tory victory - i think the 'logic' being that this would remind the general public what a bunch of nasty twunts the tories are, and push the labour party back to its proper place on the left.

i get the feeling it didn't quite work...
 
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