Labour leadership

[frogwoman]

It doesnt appear to be no

 

[LDC]

If he gets elected are we going to have to suffer 5 fucking years of this followed by the obvious crushing disappointment when he either doesn't get Labour elected, or does, and then they turn out to still be shit?

 

[Favelado]

Jez finger puppets.
Jez duvet cover.
What else?

 

[LDC]

Jez condoms? (Said in a New Zealand accent...)

 

[imposs1904]

If he gets elected are we going to have to suffer 5 fucking years of this followed by the obvious crushing disappointment when he either doesn't get Labour elected, or does, and then they turn out to still be shit?

No, just four and a half years.

 

[LDC]

Maths was never my strongpoint you pedant. Anyway, it'll feel like a lifetime.

 

[Favelado]

Jez condoms? (Said in a New Zealand accent...)

Would certainly be an effective contraceptive.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yeah, I do get the 'opening a space for discussion' thing (although I largely think it's a load of bollocks).

I don't think it's bollocks. You have to remember that despite all the talk of social media radicalising people (eg the Scottish indyref), less than a quarter of the UK population uses Twitter (15 million according to Twitter's last announcement), and 40% of those just use it as a curated newsfeed, rather than taking part in any debate. There are no figures for how many are just following mainstream media sources, or perhaps no current affairs at all. (Twitter use is double the total daily newspaper circulation figures, mind you).

But the point is that what was accepted allowable media debate prior to the GE campaign was only a very narrow band of pro-austerity opinion. BBC commentators like Nick Robinson would say "of course" we had to "tighten our belts" and so on. When the extended size TV leaders' debates put anti-austerity rhetoric on people's TV screens, that meant that this kind of talk at least had to be responded to by the neoliberal establishment. Austerity was no longer the only way.

Of course what Corbyn and others are actually proposing, beyond the rhetoric, doesn't deviate that much from the accepted wisdom. For all his Keynesian talk, he still accepts the "need" to reduce the deficit.

But what matters is that now when reporters such as Nick Robinson says on Twitter "nobody supports renationalising the power companies", people can reply "except the public". Because even though it was never reported even by the supposed progressive* press (*and there's a whole thread on how true that is, but the short answer is: not at all) like the Guardian, right during the period of the mainstream media blackout, even a majority of Tory voters supported public ownership of the power companies, railways, and so on. It was just never considered part of the hegemonic "common sense", so it never entered into mainstream media debate. Now at least it does.

Not that Corbyn himself has brought this about; he's just part of a trend. (The Jacobin article linked to further up thread is good on this).

It's just that's exactly what everyone was going on about for all the other things as well, none of which even came close to matching the hysterical enthusiasm that loads of 'anarchists' and 'communists' I know seemed to have.

I can't speak for the people you know, but the people I know who are enjoying the spectacle mostly remain just as convinced that there is no parliamentary road to socialism, and that even if there was, neither Corbyn nor the SNP would be it.

 

[treelover]

For the money, and because he's a stinky Eustoner.

Did he sign the Euston Manifesto, attend meetings?

 

[treelover]

Yeah, I do get the 'opening a space for discussion' thing (although I largely think it's a load of bollocks). It's just that's exactly what everyone was going on about for all the other things as well, none of which even came close to matching the hysterical enthusiasm that loads of 'anarchists' and 'communists' I know seemed to have.

Personally I think it's partly a result of the shit state of radical politics in this country, combined with the individualized narcissism of FB, Twitter, etc. which encourages a certain type of easily digestible and quite liberal politics where people can feel part of the 'in gang' by jumping on the next wave of excitement for something that's reflected as important in The Guardian etc..

Oh, and add the Scottish Referendum to that list...

LDC

The SWP have been band-wagoning since the early 90's if not before, jumping on new social movements, events, etc, its not new, though this time they won't get the 'dividend'. If J/C and co provide some opposition in parliament(but also without) then for me that is significant.

 

[danny la rouge]

On reflection, I think that this is a really, really important point but I'm not sure that it merits the kind of Pyrrhic victory that seems to be in the offing unless we're looking at the total collapse of Labour and something completely different, not paleo-solicalist nor centre-right, emerging...

Saying "paleo" doesn't excuse you from making a coherent point.

 

[treelover]

And im not sure how much ordinary people who arent part of the organised left are getting excited over this, at all

There were over 1600 in Newcastle, in mid August, I reckon that's wider than the 'left' there, by a mile

 

[nino_savatte]

Being amused at the horrified reaction of the neoliberal establishment is not necessarily the same thing as expecting Corbyn to actually deliver anything (far less to implement socialism). But what has happened is that a public space has opened up where questioning austerity is actually almost a legitimate and permitted debate.

Exactly. Where some people see inevitable disappointment, I see opportunities. Politics doesn't begin or end at Westminster.

 

[frogwoman]

There were over 1600 in Newcastle, in mid August, I reckon that's wider than the 'left' there, by a mile

How do you know they were all from newcastle?

 

[danny la rouge]

How do you know they were all from newcastle?

They were wearing T Shirts even though it was raining.

 

[nino_savatte]

Did he sign the Euston Manifesto, attend meetings?

Who?

 

[treelover]

How do you know they were all from Newcastle?

Newcastle and surroundings then.

 

[treelover]

Who?

Hodges.

 

[Pickman's model]

On reflection, I think that this is a really, really important point but I'm not sure that it merits the kind of Pyrrhic victory that seems to be in the offing unless we're looking at the total collapse of Labour and something completely different, not paleo-solicalist nor centre-right, emerging...

are you saying the total collapse of labour would be a victory?

 

[nino_savatte]

Hodges.

I had no idea he was a Eustonite. I thought he was just a common or garden Blairite lickspittle.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

On reflection, I think that this is a really, really important point but I'm not sure that it merits the kind of Pyrrhic victory that seems to be in the offing unless we're looking at the total collapse of Labour and something completely different, not paleo-solicalist nor centre-right, emerging...

Saying "paleo" doesn't excuse you from making a coherent point.

Not being able to spell socialist doesn't help either.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[nino_savatte]

I remember pbman deliberately misspelling the word "socialist" all the time. Maybe Diamond's got pbman disease or maybe he's just a tool.

 

[nino_savatte]

I had no idea he was a Eustonite. I thought he was just a common or garden Blairite lickspittle.

No, he isn't a Eustonite, but he is involved with Progress in spite of allegedly tearing up his Labour membership card. That makes him an infiltrator.

 

[newbie]

How am I sneering at 'ordinary w/c people' when I specifically have been talking about radicals and those that consider themselves anarchists and communists already? (Excusing and pre-empting the obvious whinge of "But aren't we ordinary w/c people too?")

LDC

it's only the ones who should have 'better politics' you're sneering at, not the company they're now keeping? That's alright then, it's self-evidently better they should stick with those who properly self define as radicals, heads held high, purity intact. That's worked so well. Listening to, and engaging with, other people is bad and has unpredictable consequences.

 

[Diamond]

Saying "paleo" doesn't excuse you from making a coherent point.

Hmm... I was agreeing with you but perhaps that's some kind of kryptonite in your universe...

 

[Diamond]

are you saying the total collapse of labour would be a victory?

Not really. But that does seem to be on the cards and who knows what could happen given the increasing fracturing of the traditional British political landscape.

 

[treelover]

The Left last night, look at all the banners, etc.

 

[DotCommunist]

Sorry im sure hes a great bloke and everything but people have fucking gone nuts.

I want one to go with my Oleg

 

[Pickman's model]

The Left last night, look at all the banners, etc.

i was too busy thinking about the diverse nature of his support.

 

[DotCommunist]

Jez finger puppets.
Jez duvet cover.
What else?

do you remember at the hieght of Turtlemania you could get Turtle coins? they were great. Maybe a Jez 5 pound coin from the mint.