Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[Dogsauce]

They’d be better off apologising less and doing more, like putting Williamson in the fucking bin for starters.

 

[killer b]

He also had the great idea of booking a room in parliament yesterday to screen Jackie Walker's Witchhunt film.

A maniac and a wrecker. He should be shown the door.

 

[LDC]

Williamson is a politically dodgy prick in a number of areas, be good to see him ruined. Be surprised if someone doesn't drag out all the other things he's commented on given his appearance over this in the media today.

 

[danny la rouge]

Am. I right in remembering Chris Williamson being highlighted before?

He's in the news this morning.

Yes, defending anti-semites, defending Atzmon, defending Beeley, retweeting anti-semites, and so on. Skating all over the edge. He’s been in the spotlight a few times.

 

[chilango]

Opportunity for Corbyn to make an example of him?

 

[redsquirrel]

He's a prick and a total fucking liability. The LP definitely need to develop some strategy of removing/sidelining him.

 

[danny la rouge]

Opportunity for Corbyn to make an example of him?

I very much doubt Corbyn will, though.

 

[butchersapron]

He's one of corbyn's mates .

 

[LDC]

Novara's 'Derby bad man', Ash Sarkar's mate too ffs.

 

[killer b]

I have seen some distancing by Novara types since last night FWIW

 

[Kaka Tim]

education being put in place nationally, not just for MPs but for members.

yes - this is something that absolutely needs to happen. I remember when frogwomen started flagging up anti-semitic tropes within conspiracy theory on here some years ago. Like - i suspect - many others I had not clocked this - but she very much convinced me over time.
As a result, when someone posted a picture of that shitty mural on the JC4PM page a few years ago I clocked it for what it was straight away - in exactly the way that corbyn (and other people on the page) hadn't. (this was maybe 18 months before corbyns support for the mural artist came out).

 

[butchersapron]

If they don't do it after the first one then any later distancing is surely worse and certainly more revealing. It says both that we don't think the issue is real, that he hasn't done anything wrong with this series of shitty interventions really and that they'll also happily throw him under the bus for the good of their own reputation though.

Edit: novara and those types.

 

[LDC]

I have seen some distancing by Novara types since last night FWIW

Got a link?

 

[danny la rouge]

He's one of corbyn's mates .

And this is why Corbyn is so compromised on the issue. His milieu is steeped in this stuff.

 

[killer b]

Michael Walker on twitter:

I mentioned it more as evidence of Williamson's increasing toxicity rather than in defence of Novara fwiw

 

[Pickman's model]

And this is why Corbyn is so compromised on the issue. His milieu is steeped in this stuff.

he's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy

 

[Kaka Tim]

my fb and twitter is full of stuff defending williamson and decrying the "witchhunt".

 

[sunnysidedown]

my fb and twitter is full of stuff defending williamson and decrying the "witchhunt".

I've just had a gander through the replies to that MW tweet killer b posted above. The left is indeed a busted flush.

 

[chilango]

And this is why Corbyn is so compromised on the issue. His milieu is steeped in this stuff.

Yep. This is a good example.

 

[killer b]

I've just had a gander through the replies to that MW tweet killer b posted above. The left is indeed a busted flush.

Anyone attempting to inject any nuance into the argument instantly has a crowd of shrieking denialists commenting. Such is the nature of all political discussions in the new age of social media - it looks fucking rotten, although it's very difficult to know how representative those gobbing off are, or how to shut them up.

 

[LDC]

And this is why Corbyn is so compromised on the issue. His milieu is steeped in this stuff.

Totally, as are some significant elements of the extra-parliamentary/activist left. It's all over the shop with the wider anti-imperialism campism, health/eco related conspiracy theories etc.

 

[chilango]

Totally, as are some significant elements of the extra-parliamentary/activist left. It's all over the shop with the wider anti-imperialism campism, health/eco related conspiracy theories etc.

Yep.

Whilst it's Labour's problem today, it could be ours tomorrow (and probably was yesterday tbf).

 

[LDC]

Yep.

Whilst it's Labour's problem today, it could be ours tomorrow (and probably was yesterday tbf).

It's a real struggle to know how to deal with tbh, there's a whole scene that is willfully blind and responds hysterically to it when it comes as a discussion.

 

[danny la rouge]

Totally, as are some significant elements of the extra-parliamentary/activist left. It's all over the shop with the wider anti-imperialism campism, health/eco related conspiracy theories etc.

Indeed. We need to call it out in our circles too.

 

[tim]

I will defend the Labour Party until I die, as the alternative is a Tory-led Government as we know, and that will benefit no one except the rich as we know. However, unconditional does not equate to uncritical. My criticism of the Labour Party at present is that the Party structure didn’t act to suspend the treacherous right wing detractors with the same ruthless efficiency that the blairitte dregs displayed when the same faces tried every which way to scupper Corbyns election as leader. It is total naivety to believe they haven’t been biding their time waiting for a suitable issue to arise which they could attach themselves to for maximum effect, There were plenty of just opportunities to suspend them and other defectors in waiting for insubordination and breach of standards, but alas the left are too soft compared to the ruthless stalinistic-efficiency of the right wingers.
As for the antisemitism issue, in a party of half a million there will as a matter of course be members who’s views and opinions are aborhent. The issue is whether the party is institutionally antisemetic.
The partys complaints and compliance unit was shown to be wholly dysfunctional with the wave of targeted suspensions during the Corbyn campaign. At that time I like many thousands of long term members were suspended without even being notified as to the reasons. When I rang to query my own suspension I was put through to a junior staff member who was working alone to administer the process for thousands. Once the new Corbyn management finally managed to wrest control of the party from clammy hands of the Blairitte dregs, they have had to waste endless hours fending of internal attacks and acts of disloyalty from the same nucleus of MPs who have now betrayed the party and the voters, whilst at the same time trying to reform and expand the back office structure to support the vastly increased membership. Unlike the former managers, I would hope that whatever the accusation levelled against a member, they should expect a fair process if they are to be subject of expulsion or suspension. What the rightwing want is summary expulsion at the moment of accusation, in line with how they behaved. There do need to be actions, but it is complete bollocks to say nothing was being done, compare the Tories response to their islamaphobia crisis to that of the Labour Party and then decide who the complicit racists are - Corbyn is not antisemetic he is pro-Palestinian which puts him greatly at odds with the Israeli Government, whilst the right wing of the party is in the main solidly on the side of the Israeli Government even justifying their illegal actions in the occupied territories. This shift of allegiance at the top has jarred the right wing. The actions of the Israeli government in continuing to expand the illegal settlements in the Palestinian Territories, and the ongoing suppression of the Palestinian people is not getting the attention it should in part I would suggest, due to new definitions of what constitutes antisemitsm making people afraid to open their mouths for fear of using the wrong phrasing when justifiably criticising the actions of Israel. Antisemitism is a very real problem as is racism in general throughout society, and the important thing is to ensure there are robust processes to deal with incidents fairly when they arise, which is not at odds with acting decisively. At the same time we need a proper internal enquiry to determine if the party is institutionally antisemetic or not, and that must be thorough and evidence based, not given a predetermined verdict based on a relatively small number of complaints against actual party members. What do they want him to do? Set up a committee to expel members and deprive them of the right to dispute and challenge evidence, agree blindly that the whole party is antisemetic and then step down so those neoliberal traitors can save the day and take back control?
The far right are marching across Europe. Democracy itself is in retreat and a racist bigot rules the the worlds super power, yet chukka and chums would have us believe the real threat to the Jewish community is The Labour Party. The result of all this will be a Tory Government which will help no one, Jew or gentile alike. Idiots like Derek Hatton will always provide good copy for the Tory press. Jon lansman helps not one iota with his posturing and knee jerk comments either. Half a million people deserve a fair and thorough investigation, not trial by media manipulated by some of the most immoral labour politicians since Ramsey McDonald and Oswald Mosley

Do you know what paragraphs are?

 

[cantsin]

I've just had a gander through the replies to that MW tweet killer b posted above. The left is indeed a busted flush.

Yep, the left is busted cos of literally 10's of cranks on twitter ranting vs more sensible left, thanks for your enlightening contribution on this

 

[chilango]

Indeed. We need to call it out in our circles too.

You've got a circle?

Lucky bastard.

 

[Pickman's model]

I will defend the Labour Party until I die, as the alternative is a Tory-led Government as we know, and that will benefit no one except the rich as we know.

tbh i don't suppose your defence of the labour party will do anything to prevent the formation of another tory government. and we can see what the labour party's like from what it's doing all across london even as i type - demolishing social housing and replacing it with yuppie flats. that what you defend? catch yourself on.

 

[danny la rouge]

You've got a circle?

Lucky bastard.

Not so much

Anyone want to join “jazz-loving anarchist communists who are a bit operaismo-ish, a bit council communism-ish, aren’t at all happy with the statist left’s stance on Assad, and like neither the May Brexit Plan, the neoconservative ERC’s hard-on for Singapore, nor, frankly, the EU”?

 

[kebabking]

Not so much

Anyone want to join “jazz-loving anarchist communists who are a bit operaismo-ish, a bit council communism-ish, aren’t at all happy with the statist left’s stance on Assad, and like neither the May Brexit Plan, the neoconservative ERC’s hard-on for Singapore, nor, frankly, the EU”?

There's definitely an Alloa section, but i'm not sure if the the Stirling group is still going - it collapsed to a semi-circle after that unfortunate business with the petty cash and the Christmas party.