Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[danny la rouge]

Paging people more intelligent than myself (of which there are many): copliker danny la rouge butchersapron Serge Forward

Huge topic, and Serge Forward 's link is a good one. There is certainly evidence of links between the statist left and anti-semitism.

Take Vanessa Beeley, as a example. She has links to both Info Wars and to CPGB - ML. (Paging Geri , who knows far more about her connections than I do).

Then there's RESPECT, and its relationship with reactionary social attitudes. And so on.

I know this is in Workers Liberty, but Moishe Postone (who died last year) is worth reading:

www.workersliberty.org/story/2010/02/05/zionism-anti-semitism-and-left

 

[Pickman's model]

It seems he is in denial of any claims of anti-Semitism. I personally cannot accept that he is inept and I am starting to believe it is deliberate.

I can believe he is inept and that it is deliberate

 

[Pickman's model]

Anti-Zionism is a thin disguise for anti-Semitism.

So all those Jews who are anti-zionist are in fact anti-semitic catch yourself on

 

[Shechemite]

I can believe he is inept and that it is deliberate

Ever the optimist

 

[Shechemite]

Peter Kyle, Brighton MP, who has taken weaponisation of AS etc to new levels in his fight vs socialism in his CLP, referred to the ' anti semitic bully now in prison ' for harassing Luciana Berger earlier in the week - he forgot to mention that the f*ckwit in question was a self declared white nationalist.

As for the ' 50 AS incidents reported by PLP members this week' that Watson keeps referring to ? Apparently nearly all involve anyone so much as mentioning Joan Ryan's role as chair of LFI, and her being caught up, on camera, in the Lobby undercover filming :

I think I’ve asked you this before, but why do think your attitude on this is helping either challenging antisemitism or the prospects of a labour government

 

[chilango]

...and reluctant as I am to dignify this duplicate thread with further responses, it's worth a reminder that much anti-Semitism in the Labour Party isn't some semi-mystical moral failing but comes from some quite specific failings of elements of the Left.

One is the hobbyist enthusiasm for overseas causes, that has led to "over enthusiasm" re Palestine. The general absence of class based analysis has allowed a certain void to be filled with an empty stridence that then in turn is too easily filled by anti-Semitism.

Secondly, again as a result from an absence of s class based analysis, the conspiraloons and their often anti-Semitic worldview have stepped in to suck in the activists with time on their hands and a social media account to occupy their idle hands.

These are not excuses.

 

[Sprocket.]

Ever the optimist

It is the ever present optimism of Pickman's model that always draws me back.

 

[isvicthere?]

So all those Jews who are anti-zionist are in fact anti-semitic catch yourself on

e.g. Noam Chomsky, one of the most vocal critics of the Israeli state.

 

[tim]

Watson is reporting right wing attacks on jews as being from the left. The bloke is a cunt.

Watson was terribly keen to accuse Leon Brittan of sex offences, and subsequently had to apologise. I always felt there was an antisemitic tinge to this, as is indeed suggested in this Telegraph article on Brittan

Redirect Notice

With reference to Brittan and other Jewish Tories, I remember Harold Macmillan's comment that Thatcher had "more Old Estonians than Old Etonians" in her cabinet.


Redirect Notice

 

[cantsin]

I think I’ve asked you this before, but why do think your attitude on this is helping either challenging antisemitism or the prospects of a labour government

not sure what 'attitude' you're seeing from the two things referred to there, or more generally tbh - do you want to set out what you consider this ' attitude' to be ?

 

[Shechemite]

Attitude, position, approach. Whatever term your comfortable with.

Do you think your helping to challenging antisemitism in labour or helping Labour’s electoral chances

 

[cantsin]

...and reluctant as I am to dignify this duplicate thread with further responses, it's worth a reminder that much anti-Semitism in the Labour Party isn't some semi-mystical moral failing but comes from some quite specific failings of elements of the Left.

One is the hobbyist enthusiasm for overseas causes, that has led to "over enthusiasm" re Palestine. The general absence of class based analysis has allowed a certain void to be filled with an empty stridence that then in turn is too easily filled by anti-Semitism.

Secondly, again as a result from an absence of s class based analysis, the conspiraloons and their often anti-Semitic worldview have stepped in to suck in the activists with time on their hands and a social media account to occupy their idle hands.

These are not excuses.

edit

 

[cantsin]

Attitude, position, approach. Whatever term your comfortable with.

Do you think your helping to challenging antisemitism in labour or helping Labour’s electoral chances

In my own small way, have been trying to challenge Lab AS over the least month in partic - see response to Chilango post for some deets

And honestly, the likes of Peter Kyle, and the multitude of cynical weaponisers within the PLP. are just helping fuel the cranks in the ranks, it's all so blatant, it undermines (eg) the anti AS positions that Momentum are trying to take of late

 

[Sasaferrato]

How much attention was there to racism in the Conservative party prior to 2018 (or even 2015).

The tolerance for Tory racism has sod all to do with attention on labour antisemitism.

Quite.

I do find it quite interesting that posters have introduced topics to the thread completely irrelevant to the the OP.

Whatever the Conservative party is or isn't, has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Of my experience of the labour branch meetings there was no anti-semitism.
I've seen plenty on line but who knows who's on line and whether they're a member.
I do know until the recent elections the NEC the main party apparatus was still in the hands of the Blairites who were trying to blame Corbyn for inaction when it was still their place men in charge.
Lets see if we can get rid of the real anti-semites They are not welcome. As to the MPs who have left they used everything and anything to get at Corbyn. Who knows what the truth is? They all signed the letter trying to bully Corbyn out instead of calling an election but when the members try to campaign and call a reselection election it's bullying. The party is well rid of them.

On a slight derail, calling for an election is a waste of air. Turkey's don't vote for Christmas.

 

[Shechemite]

Quite.

I do find it quite interesting that posters have introduced topics to the thread completely irrelevant to the the OP.

Whatever the Conservative party is or isn't, has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

Holy Hasmoneans I’m going to be accused of being a useful fool of the right-wing soon

 

[Sasaferrato]

But that’s okay. Because Ralph Miliband was not only Jewish, he was a Marxist Jew. That means you can say what you like about him with no comeback! He even wrote books and papers extolling the values of Marxism. So that’s another target because not only was Marx extolling the values of Marxist thought, he was a German Jew and The Daily Mail hated them as much as they hate Islamists and Irish Republicans.

The Mail, IIRC did like both Hitler and Moseley though.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Indeed, but giving the impression that antisemitism is a uniquely Corbyn inspired Labour problem is also a rubbish approach.

Indeed. You may have noticed that in the OP, I made no mention of Corbyn.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Holy Hasmoneans I’m going to be accused of being a useful fool of the right-wing soon

 

[cupid_stunt]

Corbyn has been inept, accident-prone, and shit at dealing with both the problem and the coverage of it.

In that respect, he's on a par with the Pope over child abuse.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

In case you missed this rather large thread, Sas -www.urban75.net/forums/threads/labour-anti-semitism.343402/

 

[Sasaferrato]

As an aside Sasaferrato is like my Mum.
She too thinks that the Labour Party doing something shit somehow reflects badly on me, someone who has been resolutely and consistently anti-Labour for 3 decades.

I'll donate £100.00 to the charity of your choice, if you can show me where I said that any action of the Labour party reflects badly on you.

I don't think either that every member of the Labour party is Anti-Semitic, and have not said so.

BTW, the only newspaper I read regularly is the Guardian. I've pretty much given up on the others, which have turned into clickbait children's comics.

 

[Sasaferrato]

In case you missed this rather large thread, Sas -www.urban75.net/forums/threads/labour-anti-semitism.343402/

Didn't see that. It is a couple of years old.

 

[redsquirrel]

Secondly, again as a result from an absence of s class based analysis, the conspiraloons and their often anti-Semitic worldview have stepped in to suck in the activists with time on their hands and a social media account to occupy their idle hands.

Yep. Even on here there have been a few instances of this willingness to excuse/pass off anti-semitic loon stuff.

 

[chilango]

I'll donate £100.00 to the charity of your choice, if you can show me where I said that any action of the Labour party reflects badly on you.

I don't think either that every member of the Labour party is Anti-Semitic, and have not said so.

BTW, the only newspaper I read regularly is the Guardian. I've pretty much given up on the others, which have turned into clickbait children's comics.

I'm not, nor have I ever been, a member of the Labour Party.

Jeez we've both here long enough that you should know that.

My point is that both you and my Mum seem to equate the Labour Party with the Left and act under the illusion that landing a (justified) blow on the the former us somehow an argument against the latter.

You won't find many in here willing or wishing to defend the Labour Party when it fucks up, as it regularly does, yet your posts seem to to imply to a reader like myself that somehow it's a "gotcha" moment.

 

[cantsin]

Didn't see that. It is a couple of years old.

you posted your usual ignorant drivel on it

 

[Sasaferrato]

I'm not, nor have I ever been, a member of the Labour Party.

Jeez we've both here long enough that you should know that.

My point is that both you and my Mum seem to equate the Labour Party with the Left and act under the illusion that landing a (justified) blow on the the former us somehow an argument against the latter.

You won't find many in here willing or wishing to defend the Labour Party when it fucks up, as it regularly does, yet your posts seem to to imply to a reader like myself that somehow it's a "gotcha" moment.

Not many defending the Labour party, full stop.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

From today's Guardian.

Stephen Brown, who supplements his pension by selling sausages to the local pubs, also said he was sad Berger was gone. “She didn’t deserve to be treated that way,” he said, adding as an unthinking afterthought, “even though she is Jewish.”

Like most people I encountered, Brown is a diehard Labour supporter, but not one particularly aware of antisemitic issues, including his own. “I’ve got nothing against Jeremy Corbyn,” he said, “but he got into bed with the wrong Jews.” What did that mean? “The high rollers,” he explained.

Anger, denial and prejudice fester on the streets of Liverpool Wavertree

Utterly revolting.

Kelvin McKenzie prize for Liverpool journalism winner.

 

[two sheds]

I'd have preferred Corbyn to be more active, but I assume he's condemned individual examples of antisemitism and left the investigations to the existing Labour party procedures. As in:

Labour: 673 anti-Semitism reports in 10 months

• 673 complaints of anti-Semitism by Labour Party members were received - a Labour spokesman said this represented about 0.1% of the membership
• 96 members were immediately suspended after complaints were made and a further 211 were told they would be investigated
• 146 members received a first warning, and 220 cases did not have sufficient evidence of a breach of party rules for an investigation
• Of the 307 who were suspended or notified of an investigation, 44 members left the party
• Another 96 were referred to the party's anti-Semitism Disputes Panel
• Of the 96, 16 members were issued with a formal warning from the National Executive Committee, six members' cases were referred for further investigation, 25 members were issued with reminder of conduct (a first written warning), and seven members' cases were closed as the full evidence suggested no further action should be taken
• The panel decided to refer the other 42 members to Labour's National Constitutional Committee (NCC), with five members leaving before their cases were reviewed
• Of the 37 cases referred to the NCC, 12 members were expelled and six received sanctions, while the rest await their outcome
• The other members who were suspended or notified of an investigation are either still under investigation or are cases where the investigation revealed evidence that meant the case could not be pursued further
• The party received a further 433 complaints which were not about Labour party members

Any comments on these - how should the investigations have gone? They should be more open, although I'm not sure whether that would invite legal proceedings if they start naming people.

How will we know when AS has been successfully handled by the party by the way?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Jewdas were raging when Israel won Eurovision, the anti-Semitic bastards.
In fairness though, anti-Zionism is actually the form anti-semitism tends to take in this day and age, rather than the old school goose-stepping and that. I picked up on this far too late in the day, with regards to a pro Palestine group up here. Mind how you tread.