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Labour & Anti-Semitism.

ViolentPanda said:
Do fuck off. If you spout arrant bollocks - and you've proven yourself to spout a lot, given the howlers you've made on this thread - then you should expect to get pulled up. That isn't any form of guardianship, it's better-informed people than you, setting you straight.
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"Arrant bollocks" appears to constitute providing a different opinion.

So much plurality here...
 
redsquirrel said:
I think this shows Diamond for exactly that type of slime that he is (if anybody had any doubt). To equate something close to holocaust denial to criticising an individual historian would be ludicrous if it wasn't so disgusting. To use allegations of holocaust denial based on absolute nothing as a tool to attack someone(s) makes him scum.
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So, he's a typical lawyer, then? Twisting the facts to fit the outcome he'd like? :)
 
Diamond said:
"Arrant bollocks" appears to constitute providing a different opinion.

So much plurality here...
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That Judaism and Jewishness are two different things - with some overlap for some Jews - is a fact, not an opinion.
That Richard Evans is not a holocaust scholar, but rather an expert on fascism, is a fact, not an opinion.
That Pickman's model was referring to Lenni Brenner - rather than Richard Evans - is a fact, not an opinion.

You're not only digging yourself a pit to stand in, you're pulling the dirt in on top of yourself.
 
Diamond said:
For clarity, I am merely suggesting that criticism of the most revered scholar of the Holocaust in this country, Sir Richard Evans, as indulging in dodgy referencing and dodgy inferences is veering close to Holocaust denial.

This is not difficult stuff.
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Martin Gilbert a more revered historian of the Holocaust than richard Evans you ignorant twat
 
Diamond said:
For clarity, I am merely suggesting that criticism of the most revered scholar of the Holocaust in this country, Sir Richard Evans, as indulging in dodgy referencing and dodgy inferences is veering close to Holocaust denial.

This is not difficult stuff.
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And tbh even if I did accuse re of dodgy referencing it's nowhere near holocaust denial
 
This is all very cosy, isn't it?

But as I'm "slime" according to one of your coterie, maybe I should just slither off.
 
Pickman's model said:
You stupid fucking twat :facepalm: Bernie Gunther was asking if lb relied on forgeries, and I replied more likely to fuck himself with poor referencing. I wasn't referring to Richard Evans.
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That's certainly how I read your response.

As far as I know the only person on this thread questioning Richard Evans competence as a historian is Diamond, but maybe he mixed him up with Ken Livingstone, or Donald Duck or something.
 
Diamond said:
There is no such thing as "casual anti-semitism", in the same way as there is no such thing as "casual islamophobia" or "casual sexism"
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I'll dignify your flailing around to attack pretty much anything anything that comes into range with a reply: GTMF

"Casual anti-semitism" is a term you'll find used by a rabbi writing in The Independent and by a writer about her experience of being Jewish in The Statesman (unless I've got the rags mixed up). It's to be found in books about Wyndham Lewis's anti-semitism and in numerous other places. If you don't mind I'll let countless uses of the term rather than your linguistic moral guardianship be my guiding light.

Since you like anecdotes I'll tell you one. A friend of mine (who I really haven't invented) was a Brockley boy who like others in the early 70s used the N word without giving it much thought. When it was pointed out to him that the word really wasn't acceptable he weaned himself off using it. I would say that judging by his politics, his friends and girl friends that he didn't and doesn't have many racist bones in his body: I won't say "doesn't have any" to be on the safe side. His partner is Xhosa and his adopted children are mixed-race. He's almost too convenient for my purposes!

His using n----r was text-book 'casual racism'. When people who were otherwise politically aware called "chicks to the front" during demos they were being 'casual sexists'. It's a thing: offending without setting out to offend.
 
Antisemitism exists and it stinks, left/right/ casual/dressed up as something else, whatever.
If you choose to call it out and make a fuss about it only when its useful for your political cause then you're not helping, just cynically exploiting the people you're pretending to defend. Equally though if you dismiss it or turn a blind eye for the same expedient political reasons, you can likewise fuck off. I think both have been going on and both are equally depressing.
 
bimble said:
Antisemitism exists and it stinks, left/right/ casual/dressed up as something else, whatever.
If you choose to call it out and make a fuss about it only when its useful for your political cause then you're not helping, just cynically exploiting the people you're pretending to defend. Equally though if you dismiss it or turn a blind eye for the same expedient political reasons, you can likewise fuck off. I think both have been going on and both are equally depressing.
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Are you alleging that this is occurring on this thread/U75?
 
JuanTwoThree said:
I'll dignify your flailing around to attack pretty much anything anything that comes into range with a reply: GTMF

"Casual anti-semitism" is a term you'll find used by a rabbi writing in The Independent and by a writer about her experience of being Jewish in The Statesman (unless I've got the rags mixed up). It's to be found in books about Wyndham Lewis's anti-semitism and in numerous other places. If you don't mind I'll let countless uses of the term rather than your linguistic moral guardianship be my guiding light.

Since you like anecdotes I'll tell you one. A friend of mine (who I really haven't invented) was a Brockley boy who like others in the early 70s used the N word without giving it much thought. When it was pointed out to him that the word really wasn't acceptable he weaned himself off using it. I would say that judging by his politics, his friends and girl friends that he didn't and doesn't have many racist bones in his body: I won't say "doesn't have any" to be on the safe side. His partner is Xhosa and his adopted children are mixed-race. He's almost too convenient for my purposes!

His using n----r was text-book 'casual racism'. When people who were otherwise politically aware called "chicks to the front" during demos they were being 'casual sexists'. It's a thing: offending without setting out to offend.
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Are you implying that I have invented people?
 
OK - fuck it. I was trying to provide a bit of colour by talking about people I know.

If you think I'm lying fine. That's your call.

Would be interested to know how you know that though and why you think it.
 
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