Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[scifisam]

Wonderful. Labour is totally fucked now, so the Tories can sit comfortably and not have to worry about the next election.

Yeah, why should the former leader of the Labour party do anything to challenge blatant antisemitism from anyone claiming to support him?

Do you not think that approach might have contributed in any way to the current fucked up situation both he and his party are in?

I hope you're trolling because otherwise that's the stupidest thing I've read on the internet this week.

 

[teqniq]

What a car crash.

 

[Mr Moose]

It was madness for Corbyn to keep on going to the last General Election. This was never going to go away, never be survivable.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

So, at a time when the country is being led by a shambolic government and facing the dual crisis of covid and a looming no deal brexit, Labour choose to shoot themselves in the face. Brilliant.

 

[two sheds]

I don’t know. What did you make of him saying Zionists didn’t get the English sense of humour?. I think he has a blind spot on this.

That's not exactly what he said though is it?

 

[mauvais]

What a car crash.

Should have stuck to hitting cyclists.

 

[Artaxerxes]

So, at a time when the country is being led by a shambolic government and facing the dual crisis of covid and a looming no deal brexit, Labour choose to shoot themselves in the face. Brilliant.

Why change the last ten years behaviour?

 

[planetgeli]

Responding to the news Jeremy Corbyn has been suspended from the Labour party, the Conservative party co-chairman Amanda Milling tweeted: “Many will be asking themselves why it took this long to act.

“This morning [Sir Keir Starmer] failed to say seven times that he would take action against Corbyn and now he has been pushed to do so. Hardly leadership.”


"Lick my boots harder Keith."

"Certainly Amanda"

 

[LDC]

I haven’t really been following this but is the general consensus on here that Corbyn is anti Semitic? I thought he was anti Zionist. Two separate issues, no?

It's a very long discussion... My very short answer is yes, they're 2 different things, but they sometimes can and do overlap.

And it's possible (as in Corbyn's case IMO) to think of yourself as not anti-Semitic, and also act in ways consistent with a general anti-racist stance, yet due to having a long standing politics of campist anti-imperialism combined with the sometimes complex and subtle ways anti-Semitism can sometimes be articulated have some questionable positions and blind spots with this issue.

 

[TopCat]

Starmer told reporters: “If - after all the pain, all the grief, and all the evidence in this report - there are still those who think there’s no problem with antisemitism in the Labour party, that it’s all exaggerated, or a factional attack, then, frankly, you are part of the problem too.

“And you should be nowhere near the Labour party either.”

 

[oryx]

What a car crash.

Indeed.

Exodus of members, significant union funding loss, more rows and division all likely, while, despite the bigger car crash that is the response to Covid, austerity, Brexit etc etc the Tories sit comfortably on their 80 seat majority.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Conservative government for at least the next nine years. Probably fifteen.

 

[TopCat]

That's not exactly what he said though is it?

How dare you question this.

 

[ska invita]

Hopefully the unions will finally stop funding the jokers.

A Labour party split not totally impossible here i reckon...stranger things

 

[Wilf]

Fwiw, I do think there was and is both an active and a casual anti-Semitism on the left that infected Labour. I also think the right have played the situation. A not exactly startling position, I just wanted to say that to show I'm not dismissive of the report or the issue when I say this is a disaster for the Labour Party, with Corbyn's suspension but even more so the position taken that to minimise the issue/report is itself an act of antisemitism. Without looking, there were up to 600k members a couple of years ago, though that number was already dropping. Where will they be in 12 months? Who would have joined anyway - those inspired by a starmer leadership?

It's just a fucking mess at the very point you need an organised left. I'm not into Parliamentary politics, but I don't see this necessarily boosts those wanting something outside the Labour Party. No doubt there will be attempts to create some kind of left electoral party, which will come to nothing or at best will founder on the first past the post the system. Nor does it boost the notion of community organising, just adds to the doom and gloom (meaning specifically the suspension of Corbyn and the closing off of the Labour left that it represents, not the report itself). Perhaps the most depressing thing is that the left hasn't stomped on anti-Semitism itself.

 

[Brainaddict]

Starmer told reporters: “If - after all the pain, all the grief, and all the evidence in this report - there are still those who think there’s no problem with antisemitism in the Labour party, that it’s all exaggerated, or a factional attack, then, frankly, you are part of the problem too.

Interesting dishonesty to the phrasing there. Corbyn didn't say there's NO problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party. He said it had been overplayed for political gain. Which I do think is true - while also recognising that what antisemitism exists needs to be dealt with. Though it was also probably unwise for Corbyn to pipe up at all, but that's him all over. What a clusterfuck.

 

[teqniq]

A Labour party split not totally impossible here i reckon...stranger things

Stranger things indeed:

 

[LDC]

Half a million members by Sunday dinnertime, then 2 new socialist parties with 250,000 members each by Monday breakfast time.

 

[teqniq]

That will mainly be the trouble.

 

[bimble]

they purportedly suspended him for this bit of what he said today?


if that's the case they'd have to suspend a lot of people.

 

[Brainaddict]

I think it would be enormously stupid, like monumentally thick, to launch a new party over an argument about antisemitism. If they want to do it (I don't think they do) they would be well advised to wait a few months at least and then launch a party over actual socialist principles. But everyone seems to have lost their fucking minds over this, so who knows?

I just had an argument with a very Labour left colleague who is angry with me now for admitting there is any antisemitism in Labour at all. She thought the only response was to deny it entirely. Sigh.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

This shit is why the left doesn’t win.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

A Labour party split not totally impossible here i reckon...stranger things

Not sure about that, but taking the long view, suspending JC clarifies the battle lines. What was so dispiriting about the 1980s was the way many ‘Leftists’ like Livingstone, Blunkett and evening Kinnock (was in the Tribune Group once) chose to accommodate to the LabourRight. Expelling JC should stiffen the resolve of some: will be interesting to see which way Andrew Fisher &Laura Parker go.

 

[Combustible]

A Labour party split not totally impossible here i reckon...stranger things

Only if the Labour left really wanted to shoot themselves in the other foot. Why if you wanted to break away and form your own party, would you use a report on antisemitism which (rightly or wrongly) you came out on the wrong side of as the catalyst. It's like with Rebecca Long Bailey, it was much more convenient for Starmer that he could get rid of her on the basis of antisemitism. In her case she probably didn't forsee that would be the outcome, but for the others why would they pick this hill to die on.

 

[sleaterkinney]

That's not exactly what he said though is it?

What did he say then?

 

[Lord Camomile]

The millionaire Starmer can pay for the future campaigns. Unite wont be.

Was just thinking, will be very interesting to see how unions respond to this.

My own, UNISON, backed Starmer, but Corbyn was very popular with the rank and file, as you'd imagine.

And, the ballot for our General Secretary election opened yesterday...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Interesting dishonesty to the phrasing there. Corbyn didn't say there's NO problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party. He said it had been overplayed for political gain. Which I do think is true - while also recognising that what antisemitism exists needs to be dealt with. Though it was also probably unwise for Corbyn to pipe up at all, but that's him all over. What a clusterfuck.

While people can argue over the scale of the problem, the bit about it being overstated for political gain by political opponents and much of the media is obviously true. 'Would Jews be safe in a Labour Britain?' and the like.

And Starmer will know that as well, of course. He has the backbone of an amoeba. What he appears not to see is that, by doing this, he dooms his own political ambitions.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What did he say then?

Why don't you go and find the quote? You brought it up.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Stranger things indeed:

View attachment 236453

Instead of that, and instead of endless amounts of time and energy spent flogging the dead labour horse, how about we focus on the need to rebuild trade unions and emphasise rank and file control? How about community based movements for tenants and unemployed workers rights and against working class immiseration.

What about the question of the need to develop political education and the spread of knowledge?

We don’t need to win a never ending or purpose yet another unsuccessful battle for the ‘soul’ of the Labour Party to do any of that....we don’t need another new ‘workers’ party lash up to do that either.

 

[Wilf]

My criticism of the Corbyn thing was that it never became a movement and didn't develop community roots i.e. it never truly breached the idea of parliamentary politics or the organisational notion of what being a party means. They also fucked up Brexit by, well, just fucking about and never getting anywhere (until the next meeting of... our position is... 5 tests.... however...), not respecting the leave vote. Of course the real fuck up was putting starmer anywhere near the Brexit policy, but shit leadership from Corbyn. Consequence: 'GET BREXIT DONE'>>> TORY LANDSLIDE. And here we are.

I doubt that if the above had been different that anti-Semitism would have been wiped out in Labour's ranks, it's an issue of the wider left. However there was a chance of a different kind of politics, beyond mere activism. Not quite sure why I'm typing all that, I'm certainly not doing it minimise the anti-Semitism that Labour failed to root out. It all seems to merge though and it feels like a point to say that Corbynism is now dead and gone.