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Labour & Anti-Semitism.

butchersapron said:
And wickham primed/led people to it by highlighting the intentional bit in the spokespersons (probably 4am reply). Basically Wickham said look people this is what you can run with...go do it.
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...but the later categorical denial doesn't get the same attention. That's how the context is set. It's not labour doing that here. They literally are trapped.
 
brogdale said:
I'd imagine that they've been storing up a number of such stories for use over the next few weeks.
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Which is another thing that helps the unbelievableness - for that to be true (that the story was sat on until needed), it would require noone else to have heard it, or surely they'd have mentioned it on the many occasions over the past 18 months when the issue has come up.
 
brogdale said:
Yep, that's what LP have left themselves open to.
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People like this will be doing this whatever. They can't not be open to it. I've been trying to rattle the labour party cage on anti-semitism within its members and the wider periphery for sometime and specifically linking it to Corbyn supporters. If, they had taken every measure i could ever suggest to deal with it this still would have happened. No matter how well their house is in order. That's how it works. They will have everything thrown at them regardless of the record, regardless of accuracy, regardless of anything. And every single response they can come up with can only feed it. They can't close the gate on it, because it's not their gate.
 
I've got to say that your posts sound a bit odd here. You're saying that if this didn't happen and someone has been smeared by a right-wing campaign then it's pretty much tough shit because of the actions of other labour members? And the party not dealing with them adequately?
 
Cloo said:
Yes, gsv and I thought it was a totally fair comparison. The whole 'we'll strike back 100 times harder' thing is not justifiable, but it is perhaps understandable as the reaction to millennia of disenfranchisement and powerlessness for Jews.
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Ok, to continue the theme, the jews must must have abused people to incite their own prior abuse that they're now playing out. The cycle of abuse idea as related to geopolitics is ridiculous, the motif insulting. It explicitly makes jews = israel and flattens all history of anti-semitism into nothing. Just anti-semitism. No historical specificities or wider analysis. It's exactly what anti-semites do. And it's exactly what both sides in this shit do. The corbyn aligned labour/extra-party left much more explicitly and genuinely though.
 
butchersapron said:
I've got to say that your posts sound a bit odd here. You're saying that if this didn't happen and someone has been smeared by a right-wing campaign then it's pretty much tough shit because of the actions of other labour members? And the party not dealing with them adequately?
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No, not really tough shit...more like the traction of this sort of story is one consequence of Labour's inadequate response.
It's all too easy to imagine how the Guido outfit would construct the story...but it's also all too easy to imagine that it might have some basis in reality. That's the problem for Labour and why the damage is done.
 
brogdale said:
No, not really tough shit...more like the traction of this sort of story is one consequence of Labour's inadequate response.
It's all too easy to imagine how the Guido outfit would construct the story...but it's also all too easy to imagine that it might have some basis in reality. That's the problem for Labour and why the damage is done.
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The story isn't about a cloud of reality though. Each story needs to be dealt with. Each allegation. But even dealing with them will be labour tries to deal with latest anti-antisemitism outbreak. Nothing will change that.

And there's two things in what you say - what happened and the impact if what may have happened happens. The way that you let that happen is by not defending falsely accused people under the rubric of fuck, people think we're anti-semtic, we better agree, but showing how any way these claims come from. Nor saying yeah but.
 
Another idiot trips up and falls on his sword

Clacton Labour candidate quits over 'Shylock' comment
A Labour candidate has pulled out of the election race over using an anti-Semitic remark. Gideon Bull denied calling a Jewish councillor Shylock directly but admitted using the word during a private meeting. The Haringey councillor, who was standing in Clacton, Essex, said he did not realise the Shakespearean character was a Jew.
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"When she politely informed me that this saying was offensive, I immediately apologised and explained that I did not know that Shylock was Jewish and I would never have mentioned Shylock if I had known this. I grew up in a working-class area in Ilford where this was a common saying, but I didn't know it was offensive."
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What an odd interview - "social imperialism', kids getting killed in buses OK in Syria if they're ARABS, not so good in Yemen. It's like he didn't do that 20 years of PFI and austerity and has now decided that he' a socialist.
 
I think I read that it costs at least £30k to run for election. For tory/labour people running serious campaigns anyway. Would he have been able to retain access to Labour's data and tools? Or will he and his company of loons just be going door to random door banging on about the jews.
 
copliker said:
I think I read that it costs at least £30k to run for election. For tory/labour people running serious campaigns anyway. Would he have been able to retain access to Labour's data and tools? Or will he and his company of loons just be going door to random door banging on about the jews.
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He'll have access to the Contact Creator data. He will either have a copy or someone will make it available to him. Could make for some interesting interactions out canvassing.
 
Without reading the whole thread, has anyone in the right wing "Labour are Nazis" faction asked themselves the pertinent question "is Judaism just a silly religious bollox undeserving of respect like all the others?"


......or isn't this an appropriate fight pit for humanists?


Stupid little hats and prayers are stupid regardless of label. This applies to Methodists and Muslims.
 
Cheesepig3 said:
Without reading the whole thread, has anyone in the right wing "Labour are Nazis" faction asked themselves the pertinent question "is Judaism just a silly religious bollox undeserving of respect like all the others?"


......or isn't this an appropriate fight pit for humanists?


Stupid little hats and prayers are stupid regardless of label. This applies to Methodists and Muslims.
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How the fuck can you think anti-Semitism is just about theology? Bizarre.
 
Apologies for quoting a much earlier post :

teqniq said:
After yesterday's fuckup Freedland goes on the offensive:

Many Jews want Boris Johnson out. But how can we vote for Jeremy Corbyn? | Jonathan Freedland
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But how utterly over-the-top ( :mad: ) is that last paragraph? Slyly implying, as he definitely does, that a Jeremy Corbyn government would risk persecution of Jewish people -- the Holocaust comparison isn't overtly laid out but is definitely there. Bonkers :mad:
Edit
Freedland said:
I understand that to many, all this will sound overwrought. I’m afraid that Jewish history has made us that way, prone to imagining the worst. We look at our usually sparse family trees and we can pick out the pessimists, those who panicked and got out. It was they who left their mark on us. You see, the optimists, those who assumed things would work out for the best, they never made it out in time.
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Willing to bet, on the letters page, that Freedland will get a LOT of pushback from saner Guardian readers about that :hmm:
 
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Cheesepig3 said:
Without reading the whole thread, has anyone in the right wing "Labour are Nazis" faction asked themselves the pertinent question "is Judaism just a silly religious bollox undeserving of respect like all the others?"


......or isn't this an appropriate fight pit for humanists?


Stupid little hats and prayers are stupid regardless of label. This applies to Methodists and Muslims.
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That's lovely. Now fuck off.
 
Cheesepig3 said:
Without reading the whole thread, has anyone in the right wing "Labour are Nazis" faction asked themselves the pertinent question "is Judaism just a silly religious bollox undeserving of respect like all the others?"


......or isn't this an appropriate fight pit for humanists?


Stupid little hats and prayers are stupid regardless of label. This applies to Methodists and Muslims.
Click to expand...
You may or may not be an actual anti semite, but you're definitely a useful idiot for antisemitism
 
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