Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[CNT36]

Just to be clear, Israel is not 'in conflict' with its 'neighbour' Palestine. Israel rules Palestine, which is effectively no different from the so-called homelands, the bantustans of apartheid South Africa.

And just saying the above will get you labelled anti-Semitic by some, notably many from the Israeli government, who cynically use the first bit to call out any criticism whatever of Israel as anti-Semitic if it isn't at the same time accompanied by equivalent condemnation of every bad state in the world.

Also that above definition contains within it disputable claims. Israel is democratic, for instance. Is it? What say do Palestinians have over how they are ruled? Israel is no more democratic than apartheid South Africa, in that sense. And again, that will be called out as anti-Semitic as a means of shutting down debate.

It's not my definition. I have heard discussion of a one state shutdown and accusations of antisemitism using that part of the definition. I was attempting to make the point that even under that part of the definition a one state solution is not antisemitic as it has happened before.

 

[CNT36]

Merge?

Colonised, brutalised and expelled through land grabs doesn't have the same sanitised ring to it obviously.

I was talking about the possibility of a one state solution.

 

[CNT36]

Some consider that it already has happened. Remember the Israeli tourist board poster on the Tube a few years back, the one they had to take down after complaints about its borders?

That's not what I would call a solution.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I was talking about the possibility of a one state solution.

You used the word 'merge' which completely ignores what has already happened and what such a 'merger' would continue to mean to Palestinian people 'Colonised, brutalised and expelled through land grabs'.

 

[CNT36]

You used the word 'merge' which completely ignores what has already happened and what such a 'merger' would continue to mean to Palestinian people 'Colonised, brutalised and expelled through land grabs'.

Fair point.

 

[eoin_k]

I was talking about the possibility of a one state solution not something that has already happened. I should have been clearer.

Does anyone advocating a one-state solution refer to that state as Israel? Either you recognise Israel as a Jewish state with a right to exist, or at least as a political reality that it is preferable to accommodate than the alternatives, or you advocate a one-state solution offering equal citizenship to the members of all ethnic and religious groups.

 

[CNT36]

Does anyone advocating a one-state solution refer to that state as Israel? Either you recognise Israel as a Jewish state with a right to exist, or at least as a political reality that it is preferable to accommodate, or you advocate a one-state solution that offers equal citizenship to the members of all ethnic and religious groups.

Very few I'd imagine.

 

[eoin_k]

Very few I'd imagine.

Your contribution to this thread seems to be obscuring this key point.

 

[CNT36]

West Cornwall latest.
Labour candidate in Cornwall responds to anti-Semitism claims


Dwelly helps run a page called Cornwall Antisemitism Watch. It usually just takes facebook comments out of context but has exposed a few proper twats. The song here has been slightly misrepresented as the lyric is "troops out of the middle east."

Made the Sun now.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Poster boy for Labour:

“Remembering I need to hate Israeli Jews and people who think the State of Israel was/is a good idea”

“I hate Zionism. I oppose the State of Israel. It is one of the worst thing’s [sic] ever created. To some extensiveness, Zionism is Nazism.”

Is this deliberate or what?. Did they really not think to check this guy?

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/...azis-slur-as-face-of-poster-campaign-1.493369

 

[killer b]

I think they've had their hands full checking anyone who's standing for parliament tbf. Easy to see how someone in a photo who isn't standing for anything could slip through.

 

[killer b]

The Tories and the Lib Dems had to drop an actual candidate each yesterday for antisemitism, one of them for holocaust denial. There's a shitload of vetting for the parties to do right now and only so many people to type racist slurs into the search box on twitter over and over again.

 

[butchersapron]

The Tories and the Lib Dems had to drop an actual candidate each yesterday for antisemitism, one of them for holocaust denial. There's a shitload of vetting for the parties to do right now and only so many people to type racist slurs into the search box on twitter over and over again.

...plenty of people to mindlessly repeat every result they come up with as FACT! in order to to get the job done regardless of facts.

 

[sleaterkinney]

The Tories and the Lib Dems had to drop an actual candidate each yesterday for antisemitism, one of them for holocaust denial. There's a shitload of vetting for the parties to do right now and only so many people to type racist slurs into the search box on twitter over and over again.

But the Labour Party knew about this guy and what he said already, he was investigated.

 

[killer b]

Sure. Did they know there was a photo of him in their library of photos for campaigns to use?

 

[sleaterkinney]

If you attract these sort of people to the party and don’t kick them out, it’s a risk you take, isn’t it.

 

[killer b]

they kicked him out though?

what's your take on the other big Labour antisemitism story of the day, that Corbyn said Epstein in an antisemitic way in the debate last night?

 

[Humberto]

If you attract these sort of people to the party and don’t kick them out, it’s a risk you take, isn’t it.

Well, it isn't condoned. But it IS a convenient attack. Are Labour more or less racist, more or less anti-Semitic, than others? I would say less, clearly. So why does it get blown up all the time like this. Because cynical gobshites are trying to manipulate, throw mud and play by double standards.

 

[Proper Tidy]

what's your take on the other big Labour antisemitism story of the day, that Corbyn said Epstein in an antisemitic way in the debate last night?

What's this?

 

[killer b]

What's this?

brain worms

 

[Proper Tidy]

brain worms

Nice to see gerald ratner making a comeback in that piece

 

[GarveyLives]

... what's your take on the other big Labour antisemitism story of the day, that Corbyn said Epstein in an antisemitic way in the debate last night?

This is 'anti-Semitism'?:

The way he said my name was so offensive: Journalist ANGELA EPSTEIN blasts Jeremy Corbyn's pronunciation and brands it 'the caricaturing of generations of anti-Semitism'

 

[Mr Moose]

This is 'anti-Semitism'?:

The way he said my name was so offensive: Journalist ANGELA EPSTEIN blasts Jeremy Corbyn's pronunciation and brands it 'the caricaturing of generations of anti-Semitism'

Hells bells that is a nasty piece.

Mr Corbyn's Germanic diction drips with memories of the ghetto — when, during World War II, six million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust.

 

[treelover]

Hells bells that is a nasty piece.


Thats her brand, bit like Spiked at times.

 

[Proper Tidy]

(Alan Partridge voice)

 

[danny la rouge]

A Labour candidate knocked on my door once. Just as the Gestapo knocked on the doors of Jews during Hitler’s reign of terror.

 

[Don Troooomp]

It's just nutpicking and the conflation of legitimate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism.

Israal is a bastard of a country with a set of bastards for a government, but the percieved anti-semitism is a problem. Maureen Lipman has just made an anti-labour video in the style of the old BT adverts and you can expect the right wing press to make full use of it.
I only have a daily mail link at the moment and I don;t much like posting anything from that shitpaper of a news outlet.

 

[tim]

Does anyone advocating a one-state solution refer to that state as Israel? Either you recognise Israel as a Jewish state with a right to exist, or at least as a political reality that it is preferable to accommodate than the alternatives, or you advocate a one-state solution offering equal citizenship to the members of all ethnic and religious groups.

The current Israeli president favours annexing the occupied territories and granting the Palestinian population full civil rights.

Rivlin has voiced support for a version of a one-state solution, and remains a staunch supporter of Jewish settlement in the West Bank.[33] In 2010, he said that he "would rather accept Palestinians as Israeli citizens than divide Israel and the West Bank in a future two-state peace solution".[34]

According to Rivlin, Israel's fight is not with the Palestinian people or Islam, but against murderous terrorism.[35] He pointed out that Palestinians could not be expected to accept a two-state solution where "one state is an invincible superpower, and the other is sub-autonomous"

Reuven Rivlin - Wikipedia

 

[Proper Tidy]

Just watched that Maureen Lipman video. Obviously don't agree but I do like Lipman, she's great isn't she, she could read out Ayn Rand and I'd probably listen to the end

 

[Treacle Toes]

Just watched that Maureen Lipman video. Obviously don't agree but I do like Lipman, she's great isn't she, she could read out Ayn Rand and I'd probably listen to the end

Is it as good as this from 2014?

Ms Lipman condemned Mr Miliband for supporting a House of Commons motion to recognise Palestine as a state.

Maureen Lipman says 'she can't vote Labour while Ed Miliband is