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Keir Starmer's time is up

ska invita said:
even if you dont call for resignation you say there needs to be a through inquiry and if corruption is found then should be prosecuted
no one is above the law etc
shittest director of prosecutions evah
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He doesn't give a fuck about establishment crimes, never has.
 
Fucking USELESS cunt.

Sir Keir Starmer has said he doesn’t want to call for Matt Hancock’s resignation after a court ruled he “acted unlawfully” when his department did not reveal details of contracts it had signed during the pandemic.

Speaking to Sophy Ridge on Sunday the Labour leader said he believes the health secretary to be wrong about the contracts, but at this stage of the pandemic he wants “all government ministers working really hard to get us through this”.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

'If this is opposition I'm a banana': Starmer says he doesn't want Hancock to resign

The health secretary was found to have acted unlawfully by handing out Covid-19 contracts without publishing details in a timely manner.
www.thelondoneconomic.com www.thelondoneconomic.com
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Hancock has already dismissed this as lives being more important than money. That simple statement is hard to argue with. I don’t think people will be too worried right now. I think they are more worried about their situations financial & otherwise as regards Covid to pay too much attention to this. However the self entitled sleaze & corruption of this extremist band of chancers will not end with Covid & one would hope that Covid is done towards the end of this year. After that will be time imo to start to highlight different ie non Covid related examples of sleaze & cronyism that will inevitably occur & that might hit home among the public.

Likewise with brexit the problems with import & export can still be dismissed as teething troubles & nobody is going on holiday in Europe right now either but that will change with time. Going from single market customs union to customs clearance erects permanent barriers & a whole layer of extra costs to trade with the EU which people will come to understand in time.

I know it will be unpopular on here but the way forward for Labour to actually get into power will for it to go more centrist. I have always liked Corbyn & was fully on board with him but in the end it didn’t work unfortunately. The ‘97 victory was quite carefully engineered & came about in part because voters were pissed off with Tory sleaze. So one way or the other history needs to repeat itself. The next general election is Labour’s to lose. To win or even to be part of a “progressive” coalition they need to do more than win back lost Labour seats they need to win Tory seats.
 
Chilli.s said:
Easy to argue with. Sounds good but doesn't stack up. Many firms with experience in manufacturing PPE and similar products were all set to start but instead of financing them the money was given to chancers.
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Yes. Point I was making was does the general public care at this moment in time ? The suggestions of cronyism has been in the news for quite a while. The cronyism won’t end with Covid. Once Covid is done with that will be time for Labour to go on the offensive. There will still be 3 years until next election.
 
BobDavis said:
I know it will be unpopular on here but the way forward for Labour to actually get into power will for it to go more centrist. I have always liked Corbyn & was fully on board with him but in the end it didn’t work unfortunately. The ‘97 victory was quite carefully engineered & came about in part because voters were pissed off with Tory sleaze. So one way or the other history needs to repeat itself. The next general election is Labour’s to lose. To win or even to be part of a “progressive” coalition they need to do more than win back lost Labour seats they need to win Tory seats.
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Not convinced this is true - the Mail and the Sun and Express and Telegraph and ... and ... are likely to swing behind the tories whatever labour does and start hunting out photographs of Starmer eating bacon sarnies.
 
BobDavis said:
Hancock has already dismissed this as lives being more important than money. That simple statement is hard to argue with. I don’t think people will be too worried right now. I think they are more worried about their situations financial & otherwise as regards Covid to pay too much attention to this. However the self entitled sleaze & corruption of this extremist band of chancers will not end with Covid & one would hope that Covid is done towards the end of this year. After that will be time imo to start to highlight different ie non Covid related examples of sleaze & cronyism that will inevitably occur & that might hit home among the public.

Likewise with brexit the problems with import & export can still be dismissed as teething troubles & nobody is going on holiday in Europe right now either but that will change with time. Going from single market customs union to customs clearance erects permanent barriers & a whole layer of extra costs to trade with the EU which people will come to understand in time.

I know it will be unpopular on here but the way forward for Labour to actually get into power will for it to go more centrist. I have always liked Corbyn & was fully on board with him but in the end it didn’t work unfortunately. The ‘97 victory was quite carefully engineered & came about in part because voters were pissed off with Tory sleaze. So one way or the other history needs to repeat itself. The next general election is Labour’s to lose. To win or even to be part of a “progressive” coalition they need to do more than win back lost Labour seats they need to win Tory seats.
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Your first two observations Bob are about tactics rather than principles. I have some sympathy for the view that calling for Hancocks resignation could be perceived by some as taking out a key figure in fighting covid . More to the point it would just be hot air as Hancock isn't going anywhere and therefore it would fail.

Your second point about Labour needing to go more centrist is actually about principle ie what does the Labour Party stand for. Of course, you could be suggesting that Labour as a tactic goes more centrist and then if it ever achieved office reverted to type but I doubt you meant that. I'm not sure what Labour would look like if it went more centrist , although it could be argued that any clairty about what they stand for would be welcome. Could you give some examples of what you mean?

Finally, how does Labour going more centrist actually tackle the situation of people being more worried about their situations financial and otherwise?
 
It's basics isn't it? They need to galvanise their support, extend their support and disrupt their opponents. Refusing to do the first and last of these is actually a weirdly bold strategy. Eg. Blair in opposition skimped on galvanising his support base (which was much more solid then), but certainly didn't refuse to attack the government. I've never seen anything like it. Usually it's not just about winning over Tories but also getting Tories to stay at home and getting your vote out. Starmer is dividing his own side and allowing the Tories to spin their devastating failures over Covid just to avoid potentially alienating floating voters.

Starmer is a relatively popular Labour leader but it's not translating into winning polls because the Tories are still extremely popular and they have a clear opposition free run at governing. It would be a freak of nature to get into government by hoping a relatively disciplined Tory Party will fall apart and then flying under the radar into government.
 
Well you've seen it. Corbyn, Milliband and Brown.

Starmer's not popular around here or with me. I absolutely hate him. But I can't deny that he personally polls reasonably well.
 
Starmer wants all schools reopened fully on the 8th. Because all the unions say 'please don't reopen schools' and Starmer has to do the opposite of what the unions say so that the tory press will allow him to drag the corpse of his leadership on for another week or two.
 
The39thStep said:
Your second point about Labour needing to go more centrist is actually about principle ie what does the Labour Party stand for. Of course, you could be suggesting that Labour as a tactic goes more centrist and then if it ever achieved office reverted to type but I doubt you meant that. I'm not sure what Labour would look like if it went more centrist , although it could be argued that any clairty about what they stand for would be welcome. Could you give some examples of what you mean?

Finally, how does Labour going more centrist actually tackle the situation of people being more worried about their situations financial and otherwise?
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By more centrist ie centre left to the right of how people perceived Corbyn. Corbyn imo has never been hard left particularly but that was how he was perceived & built up by the right wing media with their hypocritical campaign to discredit him. Loads of Labour voters said they would not vote for Corbyn & to win Labour needs Tory voters to vote for them as well. Blair actually got the right wing media to back Labour in the ‘97 election I seem to recall ?

Those running the brexit campaign & the last Tory election campaign used every trick there was to engineer their victories & Labour needs to match that to win next time. Personally I think any government now should prioritise the building of council houses on almost the scale of the 1950s & 60s. Getting those that need it securely & affordably housed in good quality housing I would have thought is fundamental to solving the social problems we have in this country.

Whatever Labour can achieve in power first they need to get into power & to achieve that they need to match & better the campaigning skills of the Tory machine. That’s all I was really saying. Does anybody really want mass poverty in this country? I don’t think so. I doubt the Tories can fix it so Labour need to prove they can.
 
BobDavis said:
By more centrist ie centre left to the right of how people perceived Corbyn. Corbyn imo has never been hard left particularly but that was how he was perceived & built up by the right wing media with their hypocritical campaign to discredit him. Loads of Labour voters said they would not vote for Corbyn & to win Labour needs Tory voters to vote for them as well. Blair actually got the right wing media to back Labour in the ‘97 election I seem to recall ?

Those running the brexit campaign & the last Tory election campaign used every trick there was to engineer their victories & Labour needs to match that to win next time. Personally I think any government now should prioritise the building of council houses on almost the scale of the 1950s & 60s. Getting those that need it securely & affordably housed in good quality housing I would have thought is fundamental to solving the social problems we have in this country.

Whatever Labour can achieve in power first they need to get into power & to achieve that they need to match & better the campaigning skills of the Tory machine. That’s all I was really saying. Does anybody really want mass poverty in this country? I don’t think so. I doubt the Tories can fix it so Labour need to prove they can.
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you clearly haven't noticed the demolition of housing that's been going on round eg Liverpool and the demolition of council estates in London and their replacement with yuppie flats. What's needed isn't a simplistic more council housing but a change in the argument along the lines of what éirígí are arguing for in Ireland, universal public housing UP Housing — Éirígí For A New Republic

We cannot leave the private rented sector or council housing as they are, a new solution is required
 
SpookyFrank said:
Starmer wants all schools reopened fully on the 8th. Because all the unions say 'please don't reopen schools' and Starmer has to do the opposite of what the unions say so that the tory press will allow him to drag the corpse of his leadership on for another week or two.
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Why isn’t he calling for every school to be a vaccination centre with every kid, parent and teacher jabbed as part of a phased reopening? In fact, where is the demand for a key worker vaccination programme? Those in the workplace - regardless of age - need the vaccine more than work at home types do regardless of age. Now the high risk groups are being done continuing on age grounds makes no sense. Surely even Starmer and his advisors can see how popular that call would be (as well as being the right thing to do and in line with the NEU position)
 
Smokeandsteam said:
Why isn’t he calling for every school to be a vaccination centre with every kid, parent and teacher jabbed as part of a phased reopening? In fact, where is the demand for a key worker vaccination programme? Those in the workplace - regardless of age - need the vaccine more then work at home types do regardless of age. Surely even Starmer and his advisors can see how popular that call would be (as well as being the right thing to do)
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Right. Any call he makes now will not be seen as desperately trying to regain the initiative. :facepalm:
 
Pickman's model said:
you clearly haven't noticed the demolition of housing that's been going on round eg Liverpool and the demolition of council estates in London and their replacement with yuppie flats. What's needed isn't a simplistic more council housing but a change in the argument along the lines of what éirígí are arguing for in Ireland, universal public housing UP Housing — Éirígí For A New Republic

We cannot leave the private rented sector or council housing as they are, a new solution is required
Click to expand...
I have no idea of the details. I don’t go to Liverpool or even London these days. I see nothing wrong though with affordable rented housing built & provided by the state to those that need it. You can call it whatever you like provided the state provide it & run it. It has been done before when there was housing need & it can be done again.

I read your link & also A Beginners Guide to UP Housing. It is a means of the state providing affordable secure rented housing. Which is what council housing was in the 50-60s-70s & could be again whatever name you give it.
 
Last edited:
Smokeandsteam said:
Why isn’t he calling for every school to be a vaccination centre with every kid, parent and teacher jabbed as part of a phased reopening? In fact, where is the demand for a key worker vaccination programme? Those in the workplace - regardless of age - need the vaccine more than work at home types do regardless of age. Now the high risk groups are being done continuing on age grounds makes no sense. Surely even Starmer and his advisors can see how popular that call would be (as well as being the right thing to do and in line with the NEU position)
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Not sure yer man knows what a 'worker' is tbh.
 
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