They'll be doing it now, they just haven't started putting it into action
Keir Starmer's time is up
- Thread starter agricola
- Start date
Leighsw2
strictly off the record
Absolutely!
I tend to agree on how realistic it is to expect a situation akin to John Smith's lead after Black Wednesday. Just not going to happen. I do think that we're seeing, and will continue to see, a weathering down of Labour's left/green/youth/urban flank. They may be in a strong enough position to not see much electoral cost from this at first but then again the Scottish vote must have been softening for some time before it deserted en masse after the referendum.
The loss of members (100k in a year I keep seeing) and the energy of the activist base will surely hurt them in certain places as well
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
You mean the Labour right who couldn’t even get a candidate on the ballot paper when Starmer won? If so, who? If you mean the ‘soft left’ who is their replacement? It’s hardly a feast of talent is it? Dodds, Nandy, that bloke from Wales who is Shadow Home Secretary, Miliband...
Leighsw2
strictly off the record
I imagine they'll be looking for a plausible soft-left figurehead they can control. As to whom - we won't know until the Guardian announce it!
But actually you make a serious point - there's a total poverty of choice isn't there? And that alone may enable Starmer to stumble on - unloved by everyone - until 2024.
But actually you make a serious point - there's a total poverty of choice isn't there? And that alone may enable Starmer to stumble on - unloved by everyone - until 2024.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
The lack of an alternative - both in terms of individuals but also of ideas - is an inconvenient reality that does suggest that. Not one Labour politician has set out a post covid vision that anyone minded to could coalesce around.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Given the flag-shagging, probably the same way Oswald Mosley did.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Burnham could be a viable candidate , he’d prob pull trade union support , northern Labour membership and critical support from what’s left in the Labour a party ? Dunno if he’s up for it seems a bit reluctant .( orig post said Starmer ffs)
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
Occurrs to me that the trend for a party leader to resign very soon after losing a general election seems to be a relatively recent thing - Winston Churchill, Stanley Baldwin (twice) and Ramsay MacDonald returned to being PM after a spell in opposition. It's harder to see that happening now.
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Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Talking of unions the internal implosion and infighting of the ‘left’ in Unite, the victory of the right candidate in Unison, whatever latest scandal the GMB barons are engaged in etc is also ‘good news’ as far as Starmerarma is concerned
A dearth of fresh political talent is an inevitable outcome of treating your most youthful and most impassioned supporters as enemies to be purged.
The Labour Party is slowing dying and this is what is killing it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Cue posed picture of Starmer attempting to eat a doner kebab.
ska invita
back on the other side
This is the pattern across similiar european parties
The realities of Podemos and Syriza aside, an equivalent new UK party cant do anything meaningful in FPTP. I guess this is why right now theres so much chatter about having a Progressive Alliance with PR as its key uniting factor. Were PR to be achieved it would see the collapse of the Labour Party as we know it, and maybe there are those within the LP who realise that and that's part of their reluctance? With the Starmerites it cant be a political difference getting in the way
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Leighsw2
strictly off the record
The shenanigans the other night at Bristol West CLP prove your point. The problem is that Labour's parliamentary elite came up through a NOLS/Labour Students/NUS/SPAD career structure that exists outside of the Labour party in the country. They don't view CLPs and ordinary members as recruiting grounds for new leadership talent but rather as expendable foot soldiers there to canvass for them at election time and to support their stellar political careers. Their opposition to Corbyn was primarily on this point, rather than any specific ideological or policy difference (though of course those existed as well).
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Correct, but again, this isn’t just a problem in the making of the last period. How many MPs have done a job outside of politics? How many come from the working class? Where are the cleaners, manual workers, shop workers? They stand out now whereas once they were the bulk of the PLP.
How many of them come from a political tradition - that did once exist In the Labour movement - where you have ideas and politics and stand by them, argue for them, organise around them and if those ideas lose learn from the experience?
The Labour Party has never been what some claim it has or what that think it could be. But at least it once had some narrative way of explaining to itself where it had come from and where it might go. It was able to give the impression that it existed for something. Now, other than Guardian writers who does the party really speak to other than itself?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Don't know about Lewis' convictions, but his seat has a long history of turning out freethinkers & municipal socialists in the ranks.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Innit. As AOC said, "the difference between an organiser and a strategist".
"Should we talk to the people to find out how they feel? No, let's talk to a consultancy company"
There's the attendant problem that many of the larger PR consultancies that do this political stuff, are riddled with Blair-era PPCs & former & current Labour councillors. It kind of means that the consultants are just an echo-chamber for managerialist solutions.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Does not the fact that the similar fortunes of centre-left parties across Europe (and the wider "West") indicate that the reason for such fortunes are less to do with the electoral systems and more to do with the structural factors.
What would this "progressive alliance" consist of? The LP with LibDems and Greens - all parties that have attacked workers. Would it include PC, a party that has stated it is willing to go into coalition with the Conservatives?
The German electoral system has elements of proportionality, where is the "progressive alliance" there? The SDP that is in coalition with the CDU, the Greens that are going to go into a coalition with the CDU and FDP?
In Italy where is the progressive alliance, PD and M5S? The existence of some measure of proportionality has not really kept a significant social democratic party alive.
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Nail on head. One thing that comes through when you see them speaking about the Corbyn support is how much they detest them for not having gone through this career path (and it is absolutely a career path for them). They can call on these networks for help and make sure they thank them effusively while pointedly ignoring others who may have put in more work. I saw this up close when Darren Jones in Bristol NW excitedly tweeted about Labour Students - a group who were disaffiliated from Labour for being fundamentally undemocratic remember - doing a campaign day in the constituency (and sticking to the more middle class areas) when Bristol Momentum had been organising canvasses up here daily. I'm not sure he'll be able to rely on that support next time around.
Bristol West update: social media manager is now throwing left members out of the CLP facebook group for no apparent reason. All part of the unity programme
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ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Roehampton was centred a lot around what Wandsworth Council are trying to do to the Alton estate - basically a ham-fisted "regeneration" that'll ruin the unique architecture of the estate, & be visible as far away as Richmond. No-one wanted that, & Labour activists have thrown themselves into the fight to save council homes.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
So we need to seize control of the tools of consultancy?
Time to start mutual education co-ops covering PowerPoint and Maslow's hierarchy of needs, comrades!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
No, comrade. We need to liquidate the consultancy class, with extreme prejudice!!! To Gulag with the reactionary intelligentsia scum!
cantsin
Well-Known Member
Demand For Special Labour Conference As Pressure Mounts On Starmer From Left
Exclusive: Demand For Special Labour Conference As Pressure Mounts On Starmer From Left
Unite, Socialist Campaign Group MPs and Momentum say there is "anger and disillusionment" among grassroots.www.huffingtonpost.co.uk
A coalition of left-wing MPs, unions and Labour members are calling on Keir Starmer to hold an emergency party conference, HuffPost UK has learned.
Claiming there is widespread “anger and disillusionment” and a “crisis” in the party under the new leader, the group want party chiefs to recall conference immediately.
The motion is backed by the Socialist Campaign Group of MPs, which includes John McDonnell and Richard Burgon among others, as well as the powerful trade union Unite, Momentum and the Bakers’ Union.
...
The motion says an emergency online conference could be organised to coincide with the party’s women’s conference in June, and calls on Labour’s ruling national executive committee to force one.
It reads: “Discussion in local Labour Party meetings has been suppressed; motions banned; scores of activists suspended; and anger and disillusionment is exploding across our lay membership across the party.
“Members are leaving in droves and many more are expressing frustration and dissatisfaction at the attack on democracy and free speech. Many members are saying it doesn’t feel like the Labour Party anymore.”
---
usual suspects? yeah but the BBC are reporting it prominently too.
i guess May elections are key now
all about May elections for now, and personally think getting behind Bristol Momentum’s campaign strike ( in response to the SW regionals anti democratic p*ss taking ) is way fwd - let’s see how they get on w/o core activists , alongside the ‘ no discernible policies ‘ approach - they may do alright ( despite current polling ) , and then it’s decision time for leftists still in Party .
If they don’t , that’s the time to start applying pressure for a rethink
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
does marx say anything about ownership of the means of production of bullshit?
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Oh
It's just... I've learned how to do a couple of neat things in PowerPoint at work
S'cool, no worries, liquids and gulags and such, yup.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Mandelson was one of the architects of the theory that disillusioned or critical working class Labour supporters had nowhere to go so Labour could concentrate on the middle class
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
On the road to nowhere that lot.Demand For Special Labour Conference As Pressure Mounts On Starmer From Left
Exclusive: Demand For Special Labour Conference As Pressure Mounts On Starmer From Left
Unite, Socialist Campaign Group MPs and Momentum say there is "anger and disillusionment" among grassroots.
A coalition of left-wing MPs, unions and Labour members are calling on Keir Starmer to hold an emergency party conference, HuffPost UK has learned.
Claiming there is widespread “anger and disillusionment” and a “crisis” in the party under the new leader, the group want party chiefs to recall conference immediately.
The motion is backed by the Socialist Campaign Group of MPs, which includes John McDonnell and Richard Burgon among others, as well as the powerful trade union Unite, Momentum and the Bakers’ Union.
...
The motion says an emergency online conference could be organised to coincide with the party’s women’s conference in June, and calls on Labour’s ruling national executive committee to force one.
It reads: “Discussion in local Labour Party meetings has been suppressed; motions banned; scores of activists suspended; and anger and disillusionment is exploding across our lay membership across the party.
“Members are leaving in droves and many more are expressing frustration and dissatisfaction at the attack on democracy and free speech. Many members are saying it doesn’t feel like the Labour Party anymore.”
---
usual suspects? yeah but the BBC are reporting it prominently too.
i guess May elections are key now
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Get the feeling that you could easily have included the word 'failed' in front of 'theory', there.
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