Keir Starmer's time is up
- Thread starter agricola
- Start date
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Floating Lab/LD voters may be small market share but I suspect that electorally they carry a decent bang for their buck (LDs took 18% of vote in 2017 so not negligible).
EDIT: I'm not saying that there is going to be some major gains, just that do not think it is especially unlikely that Labour could make gains. I predication would be that the results under Starmer are pretty similar to those under Corbyn, a bit of a mixed bag.
EDIT2: And the LP have eaten into the lead that the Tories had at the 2019 GE, how much of that is Starmer's doing is open to question but they have gain some vote share.
Last edited:
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
This is a party that thinks reactionary nationalists are the demographic with the fewest political parties competing for their attention and a hitherto completely undiscovered source of votes.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Eh what about Attlee and Wilson? That's two out of the four Labour PMs that have won from opposition.
It's just a Blair puff piece, twaddle
It's just a Blair puff piece, twaddle
Attlee had been in government for five years before 1945
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
You can't be in opposition if you're part of the government
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
The LP was in opposition when the '45 election was called.
For a whole month prior. Come on
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Keir Starmer to launch fightback with Labour policy blitz
Leader to begin setting out key planks of a future Labour government after concerns over direction
I do agree that there may be some mixed results. I had a look through various sets of locals/devolved parliaments/mayors from Corbyn and Miliband's eras and there wasn't always one story being told. Certainly you'd think London and any metro councils would still be pretty strong, Scotland still awful. The inbetween places may tell the tale.
I would be cautious about looking at GE vote share/national polling. Sometimes it's helpful, sometimes really not. I'm mindful of the dreadful locals in 2017 followed by the extraordinary GE a month later for example.
Yes, we definitely need to see more of Rachel Reeves, she'll get me back on boardKier attracts Liberal Democrat’s with his thrusting strategy.Keir Starmer to launch fightback with Labour policy blitz
Leader to begin setting out key planks of a future Labour government after concerns over directionwww.theguardian.com
Suspect there may be signs of them losing LDs again, though more data needed. Certainly I saw a number of Remain obsessives getting exasperated with him the other week, which may instigate some leakage back
nogojones
spelling is overrated
The Tories have managed to kill off 120,000 and this is the best Keith can do?
Is the long term strategy hoping that they kill off a few million boomers in the hope the youth are less reactionary?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I think the strategy is to appear sensible types, electable. Then wait for the govt to fuck it up again and again. The end of furlough is going to happen for instance and it will be carnage.
I am not convinced though the LP are in a position to really benefit.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Kier attracts Liberal Democrat’s with his thrusting strategy.Keir Starmer to launch fightback with Labour policy blitz
Leader to begin setting out key planks of a future Labour government after concerns over direction
Which would be like cross between a dead fish pursing its lips and a clip from Brief Encounter
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
No mentions of the musician issue either
ska invita
back on the other side
Of course they can't benefit, Brexit is the biggest factor that torpedoed Corbyn and brave brave Sir Starmer is absolutely silent on the issue for fear of remoaning
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I'm not claiming that Labour under Starmer is going great guns but neither is it really bombing. Starmer is twat but the idea that the LP should be polling 10 points ahead is as unrealistic now as it was under Corbyn. There is a strongly partisan electoral situation and the geographic distribution of the Labour vote has been an issue for a significant period of time.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I agree with that. I also think, if Scotland is any sort of guide and I do accept things are somewhat different there with the SNP/Indy, that once Labour strongholds are lost getting them back is a major uphill struggle. Whilst Starmer is hopeless, I think the idea that he or anyone else could have turned it all around in 12 months misses how Labour has ended up in a hole that was a long time in digging
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It'd be a damn sight easier to turn around if sir shit stirrer and his party had principles instead of triangulating on every issue
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I don’t think there is any doubt about that. But the position Labour finds itself in has been decades in the making. The long years of trundling along with the neo-liberal orthodoxy, rotten Labour councils that have done nothing for ever, the retreat from communities and every day life, 12 years of Blairist triangulating etc etc
Leighsw2
strictly off the record
Wilson was only elected Labour leader in 1963 before going on to win the 64 election. So you're wrong about that as well.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
No I was referring to his election in 1974. He'd been leader of the opposition for longer than 4 years then.
Leighsw2
strictly off the record
Fair point, though I could be pedantic and say Labour didn't really 'win' in Feb '74 as they got fewer votes than the Tories and didn't win a majority of seats. But, yes, Wilson did lead the party back into government from opposition, so it is a counter-example.
I still think Jeremy Gilbert - who is no 'blairite' by the way - is making a reasonable point. There are significant attritional factors at work that make it very difficult for a Labour leader to succeed in opposition unless they're very new in office. Which is why the first year is so important, if you look at the impact of Wilson in 63/64 and Blair in 94/95. Starmer has effectively blown his first year on Covid temporising and factionalism (rather like Kinnock over the miners' strike and Militant in 84/85) and it will be very difficult for him to come back. I would take bets on Oct or Nov for the Labour Right to start plotting to remove him.
I still think Jeremy Gilbert - who is no 'blairite' by the way - is making a reasonable point. There are significant attritional factors at work that make it very difficult for a Labour leader to succeed in opposition unless they're very new in office. Which is why the first year is so important, if you look at the impact of Wilson in 63/64 and Blair in 94/95. Starmer has effectively blown his first year on Covid temporising and factionalism (rather like Kinnock over the miners' strike and Militant in 84/85) and it will be very difficult for him to come back. I would take bets on Oct or Nov for the Labour Right to start plotting to remove him.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Just to be clear I was not referring to Gilbert's tweet as a puff piece but the prospect article.
Similar threads
