Keir Starmer's time is up
- Thread starter agricola
- Start date
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
YouGov
Possibly, but the rest is def still nonsense
And even if they're ranked as their last job, see other categories for why this is completely misleading in terms of economic clout
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Its a fairly significant thing to get wrong though.
I do agree there's some big issues with how the working class is defined: on that thread about why middle class people pretend to be working class the starting premise was that the working class now make up only 30% of the population, and toilet level clerical jobs were somewhere handwavy off to one side.
I do because (see killer b's post below)
I'm always seeing chat about how m/c the young urban graduate supporters of Corbyn are/were and tbh, I'm seeing a bunch of heavily indebted people in nonsense clerical jobs after being herded through university, handing vast portions of their income to landlords to live in shitty houseshares.
Or me, other side of 40, earning a shade over 20k in a city where that gets me nowhere to do a job that makes me middle class apparently.
The categorisations are so out of whack they're just not useful any more, sorry
See edit. Not as wrong as all that given that this would mean doing a well paid skilled job, retiring as a home owning pensioner on a good income and being forever working class. Just not useful imo
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
It's a bit old (2019, so it's possible things may have changed somewhat since then), but this is interesting - breaks down the vote by both NRS categories and class self-identification: How well do ABC1 and C2DE correspond with our own class identity? | YouGov Showed Labour losing among all categories, but weakest among C2DE-middle-class, strongest among C2DE-working-class.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Funnily enough, voting is tied to class consciousness as opposed to an academics notion of what class you belong to.
"Digging deeper still reveals that in terms of the left-wing vote, Britons have much more similar voting behaviour to those in a different NRS grade but who share the same class identity as they do than with those in the same NRS grade but have a different class identity.
For instance, among ABC1s who describe themselves as middle class people, 25% intend to vote Labour and 23% Lib Dem. This is much more similar to how C2DE middle class people intend to vote (21% Labour, 20% Lib Dem) than it is to how ABC1 working class people intend to vote (31% Labour, 10% Lib Dem).
Digging deeper still reveals that in terms of the left-wing vote, Britons have much more similar voting behaviour to those in a different NRS grade but who share the same class identity as they do than with those in the same NRS grade but have a different class identity.
For instance, among ABC1s who describe themselves as middle class people, 25% intend to vote Labour and 23% Lib Dem. This is much more similar to how C2DE middle class people intend to vote (21% Labour, 20% Lib Dem) than it is to how ABC1 working class people intend to vote (31% Labour, 10% Lib Dem)."
They also addressed the pensioner question - on which both the above comments are not quite right.
"In fact, retired people are only classified as E if they subsist only on the state pension – if they have any other form of pension they are graded based on their previous occupation.
As such, retired people are present in all NRS grades. Although they are most likely to be found in grade E, at 35% this means that fully two thirds of retired people occupy different NRS grades."
So that's about double the number of the working members of grade E. (edit: probably even higher as DE only make up 20% of the population in total)
yougov.co.uk
"Digging deeper still reveals that in terms of the left-wing vote, Britons have much more similar voting behaviour to those in a different NRS grade but who share the same class identity as they do than with those in the same NRS grade but have a different class identity.
For instance, among ABC1s who describe themselves as middle class people, 25% intend to vote Labour and 23% Lib Dem. This is much more similar to how C2DE middle class people intend to vote (21% Labour, 20% Lib Dem) than it is to how ABC1 working class people intend to vote (31% Labour, 10% Lib Dem).
Digging deeper still reveals that in terms of the left-wing vote, Britons have much more similar voting behaviour to those in a different NRS grade but who share the same class identity as they do than with those in the same NRS grade but have a different class identity.
For instance, among ABC1s who describe themselves as middle class people, 25% intend to vote Labour and 23% Lib Dem. This is much more similar to how C2DE middle class people intend to vote (21% Labour, 20% Lib Dem) than it is to how ABC1 working class people intend to vote (31% Labour, 10% Lib Dem)."
They also addressed the pensioner question - on which both the above comments are not quite right.
"In fact, retired people are only classified as E if they subsist only on the state pension – if they have any other form of pension they are graded based on their previous occupation.
As such, retired people are present in all NRS grades. Although they are most likely to be found in grade E, at 35% this means that fully two thirds of retired people occupy different NRS grades."
So that's about double the number of the working members of grade E. (edit: probably even higher as DE only make up 20% of the population in total)
How well do ABC1 and C2DE correspond with our own class identity? | YouGov
People could be misinterpreting how Britain’s social classes intend to vote if they use the two classifications interchangeably
yougov.co.uk
Last edited:
Jesus Christ you don't get any more fun as time goes by. Just try and be nice, you genuinely make this place hard work to be on
Thanks for that, genuinely interesting and worth taking the trouble to post. HelpfulFunnily enough, voting is tied to class consciousness as opposed to an academics notion of what class you belong to.
"Digging deeper still reveals that in terms of the left-wing vote, Britons have much more similar voting behaviour to those in a different NRS grade but who share the same class identity as they do than with those in the same NRS grade but have a different class identity.
For instance, among ABC1s who describe themselves as middle class people, 25% intend to vote Labour and 23% Lib Dem. This is much more similar to how C2DE middle class people intend to vote (21% Labour, 20% Lib Dem) than it is to how ABC1 working class people intend to vote (31% Labour, 10% Lib Dem).
Digging deeper still reveals that in terms of the left-wing vote, Britons have much more similar voting behaviour to those in a different NRS grade but who share the same class identity as they do than with those in the same NRS grade but have a different class identity.
For instance, among ABC1s who describe themselves as middle class people, 25% intend to vote Labour and 23% Lib Dem. This is much more similar to how C2DE middle class people intend to vote (21% Labour, 20% Lib Dem) than it is to how ABC1 working class people intend to vote (31% Labour, 10% Lib Dem)."
They also addressed the pensioner question - on which both the above comments are not quite right.
"In fact, retired people are only classified as E if they subsist only on the state pension – if they have any other form of pension they are graded based on their previous occupation.
As such, retired people are present in all NRS grades. Although they are most likely to be found in grade E, at 35% this means that fully two thirds of retired people occupy different NRS grades."
So that's about double the number of the working members of grade E.
How well do ABC1 and C2DE correspond with our own class identity? | YouGov
People could be misinterpreting how Britain’s social classes intend to vote if they use the two classifications interchangeably
tony.c
Well-Known Member
I haven't heard anything from them since I ceased membership - I did tick the box saying I did not want to receive emails.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
depends what you mean by middle and upper-class jobs, though, doesnt it? As we are discussing, many people place themselves in a class that is different from their grade. And many of these 'middle-class' jobs wont have much of a pension, especially true for those who were self-employed.
And, more centrally, just about everyone agrees that age is also an important factor in voting, which skewed overwhelmingly Labour when younger and Tory when older. So an 'excess' of elderly people in a social grade are going to bias that whole social grade inevitably and not just by taking people from the next band up.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
This is always the line when someone points out that Labour is losing support among the working class. Given that the NRS definitions are contested two thoughts occur: 1. Is anyone suggesting that Labour is still popular among working class voters? If so on what evidence and 2. What evidence is there that Labour’s support isn’t diminished among working class voters?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
A world led by Joe Biden and Lisa Nandy. Well it’s certainly won me over. How do I join up?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
the evidence posted above
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
How does the evidence posted above show that Labour is popular among self identified working class voters? Or that Labour’s support isn’t diminished among working class voters?
The evidence (if this is what you are referring to) indicates that even where self identification of class is factored in that Labour is relatively unpopular among working class voters regardless of NRS classification).
Last edited:
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
It shows that people who identify as w-c are more likely to vote Labour than those in the supposedly appropriate categories.
Given that the poll was taken in late 2019 when Labour were tanking at the polls it is hardly surprising that Labour are behind in all categories - tho notably less so amongst those who consider themselves working-class.
Given that the poll was taken in late 2019 when Labour were tanking at the polls it is hardly surprising that Labour are behind in all categories - tho notably less so amongst those who consider themselves working-class.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
it shows that ABC1’s who identity as WC are more likely to vote Labour than the rest of the ABC category. But it doesn’t answer the question I asked
It’s obviously something I omitted to do since I was in touch with my MP over a campaign I was supporting through Unite. I also get similar ones from the Cooperative Party. Still it’s nice to know what they are up to.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I’ve pasted the evidence up. Everyone can see what it says. Which is the opposite of what you say it does
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Fisticuffs after PMQs!
Similar threads
