Keir Starmer's time is up

[TopCat]

If the LP wants to win it will have to reorient itself to the working class not the middle classes. We can have that lot as allies (never trust them though) but not directing the political direction.

 

[Pickman's model]

You hit the main on the head, but from the wrong direction.

The party only needs to be seen to wrap itself in the flag because it's pretty obvious to all that the party is not at ease with the country/nation/society it serves and seeks to represent. It's pretty obvious that large parts of the party, both politicians and activist, have little but utter contempt and bewilderment for large slices of its professed electorate and target audience; they are thought, thick, racist, with nowhere else to go, dreadful little Englanders.

While that may always have been so, it has become a problem the party has to address because because it's all become very public.

And I expect most of the votes the party gets are for an imaginary party, a mythical labour party, and not for the party as it is today.

 

[Pickman's model]

If the LP wants to win it will have to reorient itself to the working class not the middle classes. We can have that lot as allies (never trust them though) but not directing the political direction.

It will never reorient itself

 

[hitmouse]

Its disingenuous because Corbyn did really well, but like medieval Christians learning the earth goes round the sun they refuse to fucking hear it the cunts, i'm so sick of the sight of them

Well, I for one am glad to see the party returning to the proven formula for electoral success that worked so well for Miliband.

 

[JTG]

Tbh the problem the labour party is really ducking away from is it has no politics

Like I said up thread, it's empty shell careerism from people who've been climbing that pole since they joined Labour Students or equivalently weird organisations. Often following family members onto the party/trade union gravy train.

What I'm observing atm here is a bunch of people fighting for their lives in tenants unions, food organisations, unions for precarious workers etc who joined Labour out of hope in the last five years and are now looking up in vain for any sign of a helping hand from the party bureaucracy. There is none.

 

[Pickman's model]

And everybody not of pensionable age.

This is so short sighted. Labour's surge of support in 2017 came from young people, and it's they who Labour should be focusing on now, not the kind of stupid old gammon who 'lent their vote' to 'Boris' in 2019. They'll all be dead in a decade.

Young people will never have known the betrayal felt when the LP introduced fees for he under blair. But they will recall how their hopes were disdained by the SKS leadership. I suspect many young people will not be inclined to invest their votes in the lp now sks has indicated how he wants to proceed. You'll be begging those daft gammons for their votes in 2024

 

[emanymton]

'The north don't seem to trust Labour, what shall we do'
- oh, give them some flags, they love that kind of thing.

'Could we not start organising in communities, coming up with some policies around working class interests?'
- Nah, flags it is.

Thing is, despise what some people are saying they don't make this choice because they lack any values or principles. But because only one of those choices fits with their values.

 

[JTG]

Young people will never have known the betrayal felt when the LP introduced fees for he under blair. But they will recall how their hopes were disdained by the SKS leadership. I suspect many young people will not be inclined to invest their votes in the lp now sks has indicated how he wants to proceed.

Yeah I mean it's undeniable that there was a surge of support for Labour from younger people as well as a lot of older lefties who departed after 1997. I think those charts showing the scale of support for Labour amongst the under 30s (especially once compared for the same cohort in 1979 or 1983 say) are pretty staggering. But they're not, by definition, traditional Labour voters. Because they've only been voting for a couple of General Elections. They can find something else to do, especially given the issues of precarious jobs, housing and vast debt are not going away for them

 

[Sprocket.]

To be fair they obviously see gaining some purchase from Popularism and they have been trying their best to ditch socialism and the Working Class since Castle and Kinnock.

 

[Pickman's model]

To be fair they obviously see gaining some purchase from Popularism and they have been trying their best to ditch socialism and the Working Class since Castle and Kinnock.

another Italian import, can you tell me more about it?

 

[Sprocket.]

another Italian import, can you tell me more about it?

Only the Cheese and Worms aspect, regarding Italian politics.

 

[JTG]

If the LP wants to win it will have to reorient itself to the working class not the middle classes. We can have that lot as allies (never trust them though) but not directing the political direction.

I think it also needs to decide what/who the working classes actually are. Possibly not deranged right wing landlords and business owners with a chip on their shoulders who get portrayed as w/c on Question Time or in the Guardian because they happen to have a regional accent

 

[Smokeandsteam]

If the LP wants to win it will have to reorient itself to the working class not the middle classes. We can have that lot as allies (never trust them though) but not directing the political direction.

It’s interesting that Clive Lewis is leading the charge against the report. Fine, so what it his solution/alternative? A popular front with the LDs, Greens and Nats etc. An alliance based upon elite liberalism. The active writing off of swathes of the working class who are ‘nativist’.

I don’t actually give a toss what the LP does but let’s at least recognise the debate now opening up in their ranks.

 

[JTG]

I think it also needs to decide what/who the working classes actually are. Possibly not deranged right wing landlords and business owners with a chip on their shoulders who get portrayed as w/c on Question Time or in the Guardian because they happen to have a regional accent

I'll add to this that one severe blocker in place for an analysis of this type is that the ranks of the PLP are swollen with exactly this type of person

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Our national anthem is known as "God save the Queen". So we sing a song to someone who doesn't exist about someone who shouldn't exist.
Our national flag supposedly combines bits of English, Scottish and Irish flags. Not Welsh or Cornish, note, and most of Ireland is no longer relevant. Scotland may not be before long.
How can anyone with a brain think that going along with this crap can, in any long-term way, be a good thing?

 

[ska invita]

It’s interesting that Clive Lewis is leading the charge against the report. Fine, so what it his solution/alternative? A popular front with the LDs, Greens and Nats etc. An alliance based upon elite liberalism. The active writing off of swathes of the working class who are ‘nativist’.

I don’t actually give a toss what the LP does but let’s at least recognise the debate now opening up in their ranks.

I think Clive L will stand for leader next time, and might even win. I think he's trying to position himself, not totally cynically, but with an eye on the top job. He's been outspoken several times since Starmer took over.
No idea what deeper positions he holds though

ETA: just looked on oddschecker and he's not even on the very very long list, could easily get 500/1 on him as next PM which is a worth it bet IMO, BJ beats Starmer for term two, Lewis wins leadership and next election -long shot but worth 500+/1

 

[Sprocket.]

ETA: just looked on oddschecker and he's not even on the very very long list, could easily get 500/1 on him as next PM which is a worth it bet IMO, BJ beats Starmer for term two, Lewis wins leadership and next election -long shot but worth 500+/1

Can I just say that with all that 2020/21 has/is chucking in our forlorn and demoralised faces, it has made my day to see such optimism.

 

[teqniq]

The mere fact that the people in charge saw fit to hire an advertising agengy to give them good optics with the people that they thought they ought to win over rather than getting out there and actually connecting with people in and of itself speaks volumes.

Meanwhile....

Exclusive: Labour Reinstates Ex-Officials Suspended Over 'Leaks' Dossier

You know, the people who 'joked' about setting fire to someone.

 

[Lord Camomile]

The mere fact that the people in charge saw fit to hire an advertising agengy to give them good optics with the people that they thought they ought to win over rather than actually getting out there and actually connecting with people in and of itself speaks volumes.

Innit. As AOC said, "the difference between an organiser and a strategist".

"Should we talk to the people to find out how they feel? No, let's talk to a consultancy company"

 

[ska invita]

Can I just say that with all that 2020/21 has/is chucking in our forlorn and demoralised faces, it has made my day to see such optimism.

500-1 isnt that optimistic tbh!
Its a little early to talk about who takes over from Starmer but its not exactly a strong field. Clive L has a good chance I think

ETA: hes 33/1 - 40/1 for next labour leader , thats a good bet too

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I think he'd be a plausible candidate when the next lot of focus groups says they need someone to engage with the young people and ethnic minorities who for some reason don't vote for them any more.

 

[mojo pixy]

 

[Sprocket.]

500-1 isnt that optimistic tbh!
Its a little early to talk about who takes over from Starmer but its not exactly a strong field. Clive L has a good chance I think

ETA: hes 33/1 - 40/1 for next labour leader , thats a good bet too

I had an email from Lisa Nandy last week saying how fantastic everything in the world is going to be now Joe Biden is in the White House. Join the Labour Party now, good times ahead!

 

[JTG]

This might just be the defining moment in Labour politics of my lifetime:

A British politician lost her job over a tweet: how to explain it to someone outside the UK

If you’re not British, Labour politician Emily Thornberry’s resignation for posting a tweet of a house, some flags and a van may seem baffling. Here’s why it happened

www.theguardian.com

ETA: and following that she was being seriously talked about as a future leader

Incidentally, I thought the fact that Thornberry - with politics indistinguishable from Starmer's, more experience in the party and in Parliament, in a neighbouring constituency and arguably more popular with some people - failed to even get on the ballot for a contest Starmer strolled home in tells you a lot about certain aspects of the 'modern' Labour Party

 

[JTG]

Well, I for one am glad to see the party returning to the proven formula for electoral success that worked so well for Miliband.

I've just had a flashback to "speedy boarding for veterans" and am more certain than I was five minutes ago that this is precisely where we are headed

 

[JTG]

500-1 isnt that optimistic tbh!
Its a little early to talk about who takes over from Starmer but its not exactly a strong field. Clive L has a good chance I think

ETA: hes 33/1 - 40/1 for next labour leader , thats a good bet too

I mean, it all depends on who's still in Parliament by the time Starmer has cleansed the party of the wrong type of MP/member/voter. They could end up with the same level of purity as the Lib Dems

 

[The39thStep]

If the LP wants to win it will have to reorient itself to the working class not the middle classes. We can have that lot as allies (never trust them though) but not directing the political direction.

Labour have been 10 points adrift from the Tories nationally amongst w/class voters and 10 points up in the middle class for months

 

[JTG]

Labour have been 10 points adrift from the Tories nationally amongst w/class voters and 10 points up in the middle class for months

Actual working class voters? Because the NRS socio-economic grades are bollocks and have been for a long while

 

[ska invita]

Labour have been 10 points adrift from the Tories nationally amongst w/class voters and 10 points up in the middle class for months

id like to see that demographic polling please if you can point to it

 

[JTG]

id like to see that demographic polling please if you can point to it

Pensioners are ranked E. Skilled manual C2.

Meanwhile get a job in a call centre and you're a C1 and middle class baby