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Keir Starmer's time is up

Okay, because I'm bored...isn't he right that the Labour Party and the CBI have always been bound together? Successful social democracy requires a well functioning capitalist engine. And the labour movement itself has always been invested in the success of businesses, because there are points on which their goals align, one of which is the continued existence and success of employing enterprises.
 
Okay, because I'm bored...isn't he right that the Labour Party and the CBI have always been bound together? Successful social democracy requires a well functioning capitalist engine. And the labour movement itself has always been invested in the success of businesses, because there are points on which their goals align, one of which is the continued existence and success of employing enterprises.
sure, it's the F-words bit that's remarkable. pure partridge.
 
Fair enough, a lot of people on twitter were getting worked up about his bound up with the CBI comment. Which is just ideology over fact. What the labour movement does and is does not accord with the ideology of its left wing. To a greater extent than that left wing would like to admit, it in fact does the opposite of what they think the movement is meant to be doing. KS is obviously a twat, but I'm getting a bit tired of a kind of revived mid-century socialism that has persistently refused to learn anything from events and changes since the mid twentieth century.
 
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Fair enough, a lot of people on twitter were getting worked up about his bound up with the CBI comment. Which is just ideology over fact. What the labour movement does and is does not accord with the ideology of its left wing. To a greater extent than that left wing would like to admit, it in fact does the opposite of what they think the movement is meant to be doing. KS is obviously a twat, but I'm getting a bit tired of a kind of revived mid-century socialism that has persistently refused to learn anything from events and changes since the mid twentieth century.
Interesting. I don't know about 'mid-century', but certainly in the last 15 years we've had financial collapse, swingeing austerity, stagnating and falling wages, the rise of precarious and zero-hour employment, all rounded off by a bunch of billionaires and corporations making a bigger killing during Covid than the virus has.

In that context, talking about being 'on the side' of business and 'bound' together with the CBI comes across like a massive 'fuck you' to Britain's workers. Just my 'mid-century' opinion obviously!
 
I'm getting a bit tired of a kind of revived mid-century socialism that has persistently refused to learn anything from events and changes since the mid twentieth century.
My understanding of mid-century socialism (well as it influenced UK governments to the 70s) was welfare state with fairer social security and unemployment benefits, National Health Service, free education, council housing and full employment from public ownership of coal, gas, electricity and railway industries.

Cobyn did update these somewhat, but what you thinking of?
 
My understanding of mid-century socialism (well as it influenced UK governments to the 70s) was welfare state with fairer social security and unemployment benefits, National Health Service, free education, council housing and full employment from public ownership of coal, gas, electricity and railway industries.

Cobyn did update these somewhat, but what you thinking of?
It's the desire to try and re-run all those things without properly thinking through (a) what is different now? and (b) why did they get rolled back the first time?

First time as tragedy, second time as farce, to put it in a familiar phrasing. The 1950s-70s re-enactment society is not going to work.

The specific thing I was referring to was the belief of the left wing of the LP from that period that the welfare state etc was a step towards a deeper socialism, when in fact it was precisely an alliance with the forces of capital (for which the CBI can be seen as a proxy), and it was as much capital withdrawing support for the welfare state that made it possible to degrade it as it was trade unions weakening - they weren't necessarily the biggest drivers of parts of the welfare state anyway, since they often weren't that concerned with the unemployed, disabled etc. In summary, the Labour Party is and always has been strongest when it is more in alignment with the bosses, and trying to act like alignment with the bosses is a betrayal of the party's traditions is just....dumb. It mistakes the party's actual practices for the beliefs of a left wing that has largely been marginal.
 
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In summary, the Labour Party is and always has been strongest when it is more in alignment with the bosses, and trying to act like alignment with the bosses is a betrayal of the party's traditions is just....dumb. It mistakes the party's actual practices for the beliefs of a left wing that has largely been marginal.
Possibly you weren't paying attention in the 1964 and two 1974 elections? Or 2017? (Even 1997 had its moments, re. Windfall Tax.)
 
Those Labour election victories (in short hand):
1945 - Left
1964 - Left(ish)
1974 Feb - very Left
1974 Oct - still Left
1997 - slightly Left
2001 - Right (collapse in working class turnout)
2005 - Right (got fewer votes than Michael Howard's Tories in England)
er, that it....
 
Those Labour election victories (in short hand):
1945 - Left
1964 - Left(ish)
1974 Feb - very Left
1974 Oct - still Left
1997 - slightly Left
2001 - Right (collapse in working class turnout)
2005 - Right (got fewer votes than Michael Howard's Tories in England)
er, that it....

I think you'll need to back that list up with some substance if you expect it to be taken seriously.

You might also try to address the point about successive Labour governments being effectively an alliance with the forces of capital, which you seem either to have deliberately ignored or simply not understood.
 
Cat Smith said she was stepping down as shadow secretary of state for young people and democracy.

Writing to her party leader, Ms Smith - the MP for Lancaster and Fleetwood - said she was "grateful" for Sir Keir's offer to keep her in her shadow cabinet position.
However, she said she would leave her role, adding: "I wish to focus more of my time in my Lancashire constituency."

Corbyn row​

She said the pair had a meeting scheduled during which she wanted to raise concerns about former leader Jeremy Corbyn "not being readmitted to the Parliamentary Labour Party".
She wrote that the current situation was "utterly unsustainable" adding "it is important you truly understand how much damage this is causing".
In her letter, Ms Smith also raised the issue of proportional representation, and concluded that she wished the shadow cabinet "well" but added: "I do hope you will reflect on some of these concerns I have aimed to outline constructively and from the point of view of one of our few remaining northern 'red wall' Labour MPs."

Last week, the Labour leader told the BBC he had not spoken to his predecessor Mr Corbyn in over a year, since a report was published into anti-Semitism in the party in October 2020.
Mr Corbyn's reaction to the report saw him suspended from the party - and while he was allowed back as a party member, he still sits as an independent MP
 
This is pretty dismal:


I notice in his speech he mentions several previous leaders of the party.

Not Miliband whose criticism of Israeli military action in Gaza got him a lot of stick.


Worth remembering that the right of the party saw the rot start to set in with soft left Miliband.

This speech by Starmer also needs to be seen in light of Miliband criticisms of Israeli government/ army actions at the time of his leadership. In fact Miliband had the more balanced approach than Starmer and still got in trouble.

Starmer speech is underlining Labour Party under him won't be doing that again.

His quote of Harold Wilson shows this. This is agreeing with the myth that Palestine was an empty land until built up by Israel state.
 
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