Just found out a guy who works for me is being a git

[Firky]

Six people in an office. Five of them white. One of them is late. Person remarks, "the black is late".

Nice.

 

[ymu]

So relaying an anecdote where a Nigerian claims "we're all lazy" is the same as you yourself actually saying "Nigerians are lazy"?
If I say "back in '91 I was chatting with my mate Joe at work, and he said 'bloody Nigerians, we all work bloody hard finding ways to avoid working. If we channeled our energy into actual work, we'd be world-beaters' ", have I just claimed that Nigerians are lazy and/or crooked, or have I related an anecdote about what a single Nigerian individual has said to me?

The post about the Nigerian guy (see what I did there) is a red herring. Trashy had skim read and clocked it as mildly offensive in context, and raised the fact that no one had jumped on the poster as possible evidence that Manter was being hounded for something other than her words (I hope that is a fair summary trashy).

I resurrected it to negate that point because it was posted by Manter.

I can understand the argument that 'the overheads/indians/etc' can be used to dehumanise people but I don't think that means we should never use it as short hand when identifying people.

We do it naturally, especially in the work place. People are referred to identify them from other people quickly. Waiters talk about tables, doctors/dentists/therapists etc talk about appointment times, teachers talk about years.

I agree with that. It is a natural form of speech, often scans better in a sentence, and I don't think it's problematic on occasion. It's just not a great habit to get into. The Indian, the Gay, the Cripple, the Bint, the Ginger, the Chav ...what does the straight, white, able-bodied middle-class male get called?

This spat arose from a context of dehumanising and dismissive language being used repeatedly by one poster, sometimes in a context which explicitly marks her out as better than the people she is denigrating. "Pfft. They're the Overhead, I'm the Revenue"; being forced to converse with "brain dead house wives" when the men are having a much more interesting conversation.

I hate the way this thread has turned out, but I understand the anger that caused it and I've been part of that because I am fucking angry about it and the way it is being excused because the poster happens to be popular. I like her too. It's irrelevant. What are friends for if not to tell you when you're being a cunt?

 

[Firky]

Six people in an office. One of them is late. Person remarks, "the disabled is late".

Nice.

 

[trashpony]

Six people in an office. One of them is late. Person remarks, "the disabled is late".

Nice.

Typical fucking disabled

That was supposed to be a joke but it doesn't look v funny written down

ymu Yes fair summary

 

[ViolentPanda]

Aahh, VP. Firstly, I had a transplant because of a hereditary condition. Nothing to do with my mystical legendary drink and drugs intake, that is really quite a crass thing to say. Surprised at you but I know you well enough to know that's not what you meant. Also I never really was one for drugs, I experimented here and there but that's all. I still smoke weed for the muscular pain I get in my abdomen, it helps enormously as well as having other beneficial side effects (i.e getting stoned!). Also I did like a drink, I won't deny that one, I used to hammer it when I was at uni but I was no George Best. As a matter of fact my LFT's were that of a perfectly healthy adult. In the end cancer got the better of my old liver - not drink, not drugs. Check your privileges, old man.

Now roll the fuck off

You say that, but...

 

[ymu]

Typical fucking disabled

That was supposed to be a joke but it doesn't look v funny written down

ymu Yes fair summary

The best jokes make a serious point. If someone is late, they are late. But if they happen to be disabled, it's because they are disabled. And if they're Nigerian, it's because Nigerians are lazy.

Identifying people by a characteristic that makes them 'other' encourages the type of thought that associates negative (and sometimes positive) characteristics with all 'others'. Like the lad I worked with who justified his racism on the grounds that he'd been beaten up by a black guy.

"Ever been beaten up by a white guy?"

"Yeah, loads of times. Oh ..."

 

[friedaweed]

Six people in an office and one of them says "I don't take orders from a woman" and we're back on track
Unlikely.

20 pages. Good going urbs

 

[Firky]

"Women's logic" another classic that's thrown about.

WTF is women's logic?

 

[Lord Camomile]

WTF is women's logic?

"It's probably a man's fault".

Eh? Am I right? Eh? Yeah, you know I'm right.

e2a: "That seems a bit Irish" is one I hadn't heard until (relatively) recently. I was talking to my Irish-parented best friend at the time

 

[Firky]

In Sainsburys today I saw this stuff and a bar of chocolate that was geared towards women - the packaging was designed like the pill.

To be honest it's slightly better the Emergency Chocolate rationing which used to be made to look like the MA pill (maybe I am being paranoid).

I must be getting old. I used to fall for this shit

 

[ymu]

"Women's logic" another classic that's thrown about.

WTF is women's logic?

It's the equivalent of dismissing a link to wikipedia on the grounds that it is wikipedia, regardless of how well referenced the article itself is. A refuge for egotistical idiots who have no counter-argument to offer but refuse to admit defeat.

 

[Firky]

Right! Really! I am leaving. I said I wasn't getting involved again

 

[twentythreedom]

You'll be back

 

[Firky]

Nah, I have BBC Africa to watch on iPlayer and some Charlie Brooker to rant at.

Glitch in the matrix for a second, thread locked and unlocked

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm sure this thread was locked just now

 

[fogbat]

I agree with that. It is a natural form of speech, often scans better in a sentence, and I don't think it's problematic on occasion. It's just not a great habit to get into. The Indian, the Gay, the Cripple, the Bint, the Ginger, the Chav ...what does the straight, white, able-bodied middle-class male get called?

Default.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's not about you, it's about whether a group of people, any group of people, should be regarded and identified by a single defining characteristic such as age or disability when it's only a part of who they actually are.

Me, for example, I'm disabled, but I'm also white; male; middle-aged; a supporter of West Ham United FC; a photographer; an anti-fascist and anti-Zionist; a superannuated punk and many other things. "disabled" isn't all that I am, it's a single facet of me, why should someone be allowed to refer to myself and others with similarly diverse characteristics (and that's all of us, by the way!) by that single signifier when it doesn't represent more than a fraction of me, and is perjorative to boot?

Beardo.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Not true. "Canucking" means serial posting without reading the thread. I usually read the thread first.

Canucking means different things to different people. It's like trying to define love.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Not pbman, detective_boy and ninjaboy, then?
.

Or steelgate, phildwyer, Methlab?

 

[Firky]

Default.

A poster on here pulled me up one night when I was moaning and feeling sorry for myself. We were drunk in a bar, it was madua and it was probably one of the most significant things anyone has ever said to me. You know when someone says something it and it continues to resonate for years after and probably for the rest of you life? Proper put in my place so much more succinct than this thread

I can't remember what I said to provoke it only the words she said, "fucking hell firky, you're white, comfortably well off twenty something, university educated, male. what the fuck are you moaning at life for? Emo" .

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

O

And diesel.

Just goes to show: it's possible to be taken in by someone's presentation on the internet; which might be quite different from their reality.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Aahh, VP. Firstly, I had a transplant because of a hereditary condition. Nothing to do with my mystical legendary drink and drugs intake, that is really quite a crass thing to say. Surprised at you but I know you well enough to know that's not what you meant. Also I never really was one for drugs, I experimented here and there but that's all. I still smoke weed for the muscular pain I get in my abdomen, it helps enormously as well as having other beneficial side effects (i.e getting stoned!). Also I did like a drink, I won't deny that one, I used to hammer it when I was at uni but I was no George Best. As a matter of fact my LFT's were that of a perfectly healthy adult. In the end cancer got the better of my old liver - not drink, not drugs. Check your privileges, old man.

Now roll the fuck off

For, life had kick him down to the ground
When he tried to get up
Life would kick him back down
One day Papa called me to his dyin' bed
Put his hands on my shoulders
And in his tears he said
He said, Patches
I'm dependin' on you, son
To pull the family through
My son, it's all left up to you
Two days later Papa passed away, and
I became a man that day
So I told Mama I was gonna quit school, but
She said that was Daddy's strictest rule
So ev'ry mornin' 'fore I went to school
I fed the chickens and I chopped wood too
Sometimes I felt that I couldn't go on
I wanted to leave, just run away from home
But I would remember what my daddy said
With tears in his eyes on his dyin' bed
He said, Patches
I'm dependin' on you, son
I tried to do my best
It's up to you to do the rest
Then one day a strong rain came
And washed all the crops away

etc

 

[Firky]

You're doing it again, first time on perhaps years, you're posting random lyrics to thread. "proper urbans" or is it "real urbans" ? I forget

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Six people in an office. Five of them white. One of them is late. Person remarks, "the black is late".

Nice.

What's wrong with 'Fred is late'?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You're doing it again, first time on perhaps years, you're posting random lyrics to thread. "proper urbans" or is it "real urbans" ? I forget

And firky: it's all because of you.

Firky gave me my mojo back.

 

[Firky]

You brushed me away the other day.

 

[friedaweed]

O


Just goes to show: it's possible to be taken in by someone's presentation on the internet; which might be quite different from their reality.

I'm gonna feel really embarrassed if i find out you're not the right wing apologist, gun nut loving, anti semitic, nakid thread stalking, Anne Coulter palm fapping, shit lyrics quoting dude you've been hoodwinking me with all these years dude

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You brushed me away the other day.

That's how it is in relationships.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm gonna feel really embarrassed if i find out you're not the right wing apologist, gun nut loving, anti semitic, nakid thread stalking, Anne Coulter palm fapping, shit lyrics quoting dude you've been hoodwinking me with all these years dude

Then whatever condiment it is you like to eat crow with, you should get a supply in.

 

[friedaweed]

That's how it is in relationships.

Can you have a two man circle jerk?

G'wan go let the gimp out. You need peebs for this JC