Jessiedogs - Not everything about the Olympics is positive thread!

[october_lost]

Sorry what exactly did I miss at of curiosity.

 

[Orang Utan]

Bollocks it's the first you've heard of it. If you want to take the piss out of someone, try someone else.

Please don't tell me what I think - spamming is just about selling things in my book.
Anyway, we're getting bogged down in senseless detail and it's late.
Night.

 

[aylee]

They're all on drugs!

And the Chinese are going to take over the world, I tell you! And force us to eat stir fry every night! We're all DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED ....

 

[TrippyLondoner]

aylee,just ignore them and let this forum die. let them chat to themselves.

 

[newharper]

Originally Posted by Jessiedog
The thing is, that the real scandal about the olympics in China is exactly this level of disengagement by ordinary people around the globe, this suspension of disbelief.


The willingness to subscribe to the idea that a corrupt, money grubbing, corporate-sponsored, drug-addled athletic event that deliberately aids and abets the suppression of millions of poor people, should be supported because it involves maybe 12,000 athletes who have worked hard.


The awarding of the games and the cheerleading thereof is, at best, an aquiescence towards the CCP in it's increasing suppression of freedoms in China and, worse, has given it a green light to continue with impunity.




And once the games are over, Melinda, and yours and everyone elses attention has re-focussed on the next jamboree and you've all gone back to the rest of your lives .....




..... the MILLIONS of people dispossesed of their homes with inadequate (say 10% of value) or NO compensation and the hundreds, maybe thousands rounded up before the games and gaoled by the police for three years - no court, no judge, no process, no nothing - for being SUSPECTED of, ummmmmm, well thinking or writing something and few if any of them advocating anything more than a bit more fairness and openness won't be going back to their normal lives.


And this was all done in the name of the olympics, specifically in order to "showcase" China's supposed maturity and the CCP's willingness to embrace a new era of freedoms in China.



IMO, the hypocrisy on the part of anyone that purports to support the basic freedoms that most of us take for granted and is then involved in any way with the cheering-on of this event, or those directly involved, is breathtaking.


I find it distasteful in the extreme that people are prepared to place the harsh subjugation of the freedoms of the people of China in secondary consideration to the glorification of a few thousand, hard working, athletes - and that's exactly what is happenning in reality.


On the ground, in reality, these games are responsible for creating a travesty of justice on an immense scale.

And NO athletics contest can justify that.




Woof

You are right of course but only in part.

Making the thousands of mainly drug free athletes carry the responsibility of a global failure of the political class is hardly fair. ( I am not attempting to say that you were claiming this.)

The loss of the games to western athletes would be significant but not, in the grand scale huge; elsewhere however?

Just as an example the position of women in many societies will be significantly changed.

In China's rush for medals they seem to have been sexblind, would you say this is a divergence from tradition and if so could it be a lasting one?

 

[Dhimmi]

I'm genuinely surprised by all this. We've just had the most politically appeasing Olympic games since Berlin 1936, with some big hitters (The BBC being most noticeable) only too happy to suck up, and rather surprisingly it's shoulder shrugging and piss-take time here. One of the biggest concerns expressed really is BoJo's tailoring.

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm genuinely surprised by all this. We've just had the most politically appeasing Olympic games since Berlin 1936, with some big hitters (The BBC being most noticeable) only too happy to suck up, and rather surprisingly it's shoulder shrugging and piss-take time here. One of the biggest concerns expressed really is BoJo's tailoring.

Shocking, isn't it?

 

[Dhimmi]

Well shocking is probably too harsh, but I am genuinely surprised.

If it weren't for the wonder of hindsight I'm starting to think that we could have a thread about what a wonderful job Herr Hitler had done with Germany...

 

[London_Calling]

That Jesse Owens was def on drugs. As well as Berlin in 1936, I suppose Moscow (as capital of the USSR) in 1980 was also pretty unpleasant from a human rights pov - so now we've named in total the (3) non-western/ised States to host the Games in the modern era.

Dhimmi - tell me what 'we' should do in this situation; instead of appeasing we* . . . force the athletes to boycott the event. Or what ?



* I'm asking because I've pondered it for weeks and haven't found a satisfactory way forward.

 

[marty21]

do boycotts work? from memory there have been many olympics boycotted, who is to know if they led to positive change, 56 saw protests about the soviets in hungary, 23 years later saw the fall of the wall, i think 72 and 76 were partially boycotted by african nations over apartheid, that fell about 15 years later, partly because of the sporting boycott and also because of economic sanctions , and a host of other reasons, 80 because of the soviet invasion of afghanistan, well that is definitely sorted out, 84 saw a boycott from the soviet bloc of the LA games, in retaliation for the 80 boycott, they held friendship games around the same time, in fact the soviet bloc didn't attend olympics from the late 20s to the 50s and held their old alternate games, can't remember what they called them, spartiads or something,

the olympics has always been a politcal football, the world cup doesn't seem as affected by boycotts, i can't remember any since the war, then again, african nations did not have a big representation in them, maybe one country per games up until the expansion?

not sure what i'm rambling about now, i want the olympics to be a sporting festival, and i enjoy it as such, but at the back of my mind is all the politics

 

[Orang Utan]

Are boycotts necessarily meant to work? Maybe people boycott things just cos they want no part in them.

 

[marty21]

Are boycotts necessarily meant to work? Maybe people boycott things just cos they want no part in them.

i don't think boycotts are necessarily a choice for the athletes involved...in 1980 a lot of british athletes went to moscow, and ignored thatcher who didn't want them to go

 

[editor]

Are boycotts necessarily meant to work? Maybe people boycott things just cos they want no part in them.

Do you think it would have been better if the entire British squad had unilaterally boycotted the event?

 

[Orang Utan]

Then they did make a choice

 

[London_Calling]

Whether they worked or not back in the day doesn't matter a whole lot, yer Chinese aren't exactly open to persuasion.

 

[Orang Utan]

Do you think it would have been better if the entire British squad had unilaterally boycotted the event?

It would have been up to the individuals involved surely? For the record, did any athletes boycott The Games?

 

[Dhimmi]

That Jesse Owens was def on drugs. As well as Berlin in 1936, I suppose Moscow (as capital of the USSR) in 1980 was also pretty unpleasant from a human rights pov - so now we've named in total the (3) non-western/ised States to host the Games in the modern era.

Dhimmi - tell me what 'we' should do in this situation; instead of appeasing we* . . . force the athletes to boycott the event. Or what ?

* I'm asking because I've pondered it for weeks and haven't found a satisfactory way forward.

Well doing anything is a good step as my old friend Chomsky says. Whether that's protest or boycotting the commercial sponsors is up to the individual of course. Wish I had a more definite answer for you I really do.

Not sure an athletic boycott works though, the 1936 People's Olympiad planned by Spain was probably the most organised boycott ever but is held by some to have been a major cause in the Spanish Civil War kicking off when it did.

The thing which surprises me most is how happy we, generally, have been to go along with the portrayal of these games as a jolly little outing. It's one thing to feel powerless when faced with the monolithic size of the bastard thing, but quite another to dance along with it IMHO.

 

[Dhimmi]

Do you think it would have been better if the entire British squad had unilaterally boycotted the event?

I think it would have helped, and I'd have been very impressed too.

Of course it's very likely that threats were made to prevent any such displays by the OC's of each country attending to their competitors. What's meant to be a show of sporting prowess is a very dirty little game indeed.

 

[marty21]

It would have been up to the individuals involved surely? For the record, did any athletes boycott The Games?

the olympics are a show case for athletes, it can lead to a lot of money earning on the professional circuit, bolt will get invited to all sorts of events now, get all sorts of sponsorship on top - athletic events want to have olympic champions to get the punters in - so why should they forgo money for what they do, when governments don't boycott china, maintain extensive trading links with them etc

 

[London_Calling]

No concrete suggestions though . . . so we're all in the same boat.

Elsewhere:

The thing which surprises me most is how happy we, generally, have been to go along with the portrayal of these games as a jolly little outing. It's one thing to feel powerless when faced with the monolithic size of the bastard thing, but quite another to dance along with it IMHO.

Well again, you're saying this isn't good enough without proposing an alternative way forward.

Fwiw, I'm not sure I understand how you expect media organisations who pay millions for the broadcast rights to portray the event in any other light - they've already bought into the deal and are hardly likely to shoot themselves in the foot.

The print media needs accredisation in order to report to its public . . . again, what suggestions do you have?

 

[butchersapron]

Not about China though, 68 was part of a wider global challenge, that's why it was important. Nothing like 68 could effect China internally, but it might affect stuff elsewhere.
I think a GB boycott would have been worthless expect for a few inches for a few days. I don't blame anyone that took part for taking part. They didn't take part in the context of global challenges that would or could have made any gesture worthwhile. If those condtions existed i would be asking why they went.

 

[Dhimmi]

so why should they forgo money for what they do, when governments don't boycott china, maintain extensive trading links with them etc

A very good point. Of course the problem is the system and not the individual trapped in that system. However it produces a catch-22 doesn't it? All the time the majority of citizens are happy to go along with the benefits inherent in the Chinese govt exploiting their own there's little chance of getting our Govt. to abandon those same benefits.

It's indicative of the swing to the right which seems to be all the rage.

 

[twistedAM]

I think it would have helped, and I'd have been very impressed too.

Of course it's very likely that threats were made to prevent any such displays by the OC's of each country attending to their competitors. What's meant to be a show of sporting prowess is a very dirty little game indeed.

Boycott your computer then; most of the components are probably made in China.

Seriously though, I agree on the second point as China can exert a lot of pressure in a lot of ways

 

[Dhimmi]

Well again, you're saying this isn't good enough without proposing an alternative way forward.

I'm not sure that protest or boycott aren't an alternative way forward tbh. Worked well enough with the old RSA.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Post things here that may be negative.

I'll start :-

I think drugs have probably been used in places!

A tae kwon do guy kicked the ref in the face, and got banned for life.

 

[Orang Utan]

the olympics are a show case for athletes, it can lead to a lot of money earning on the professional circuit, bolt will get invited to all sorts of events now, get all sorts of sponsorship on top - athletic events want to have olympic champions to get the punters in - so why should they forgo money for what they do, when governments don't boycott china, maintain extensive trading links with them etc

Because they don't want to be involved with the whole nasty business? I'm sure it's a difficult choice to make but I wouldn't feel comfortable working over there. TBH I'm more angry with the compliance of the mainstream media than the athletes cos the athletes haven't been uncritically reading out Chinese press releases live on telly.

 

[editor]

I think it would have helped, and I'd have been very impressed too.

So you'd like the athletes to have been deprived of career-defining big moments that they'd trained most of their lives for while you continue to buy electronics and goods sourced from China?

So what difference would that have made - apart from discouraging more kids to take up athletics in the UK and probably encouraging them go back to their computers and gaming consoles. Made in China.

 

[twistedAM]

Because they don't want to be involved with the whole nasty business? I'm sure it's a difficult choice to make but I wouldn't feel comfortable working over there. TBH I'm more angry with the compliance of the mainstream media than the athletes cos the athletes haven't been uncritically reading out Chinese press releases live on telly.

Was it an ITV journalist who nearly got arrested and his camera guy filmed it? Was on the news. Not on BBC tho.

The BBC compliance was appalling but what do you expect with right wing oafs like Balding, Chiles etc in the chair. They'd read out anything for a(nother) free lunch.

 

[editor]

Was it an ITV journalist who nearly got arrested and his camera guy filmed it? Was on the news. Not on BBC tho.

Yes it was. They ran video footage of the arrest too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7557771.stm

 

[JTG]

the olympics are a show case for athletes, it can lead to a lot of money earning on the professional circuit, bolt will get invited to all sorts of events now, get all sorts of sponsorship on top - athletic events want to have olympic champions to get the punters in - so why should they forgo money for what they do, when governments don't boycott china, maintain extensive trading links with them etc

Absolutely. It's like Zimbabwe - I don't think our cricket team should play them personally but why should the government be putting pressure on them to withdraw when they're perfectly happy for BA to fly there for example?

It's fair to say that sport can be used as a fig leaf for governments to cover up some pretty brutal actions but equally our government attempted to use it as a fig leaf for their own inaction in other areas when they were muttering about boycotting Zimbabwe without actually doing anything concrete to back up the ECB for the potential consequences.

It seems to me that it's all one way - sport has to be the fall guy so business can continue uninterrupted and with a clear conscience. It's bollocks.