Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[agricola]

It is sort of a worrying development (not so much this specifically, but rather the implications of the Commons just nodding this through) given the recent change to s 12 of the Terrorism Act that now states:

(1A) A person commits an offence if the person—

(a) expresses an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, and

(b) in doing so is reckless as to whether a person to whom the expression is directed will be encouraged to support a proscribed organisation.”

... for which the maximum sentence is ten years.

 

[belboid]

Was the reluctance to proscribe the ‘political wing’ of HB based on its perceived separateness from its ‘military wing’? IE was the military wing proscribed based on evidence and the political wing not proscribed as its seen as different to the militia?

I don't know, was it?

Those making the changes are the ones who need to justify them.

 

[Shechemite]

I dunno. Labour say it was because it's part of the Lebanese government and proscribing it would make it difficult to maintain dialogue with the Lebanese government, and that no new evidence has been produced to support this change in policy. I'm no expert, but that seems a reasonable objection.

Javid seems to be arguing that there isn’t the political and military wings are one and the same. I know very little about this tbh.

 

[Shechemite]

Those making the changes are the ones who need to justify them.

Yes?

 

[belboid]

Yes?

Yes

 

[Shechemite]

Those making the changes are the ones who need to justify them.

This is banal. Who has said the govt don’t need to justify the change?

 

[Humberto]

At the end of the day nobody in mainstream parliamentary politics gets anywhere unless they are acceptable to the upper echelons which presumably Corbyn is. He wouldn't have survived without it. So get ready for your establishment hugging, aristocracy and system belonging Corbyn to do the business: or not. The system functions. Corbyn won't change that.

Now, if he is preferred by the electorate he will not show up for you. He will obey the rules. And being given the post that they bestow, will fall when they say so. When it is his 'turn'; when the balance shifts in his favour, he will have to obey the rules.

So when his time is up (he's been there since the 1980s) he might have gained some concessions, or more likely slowed a torrent. Which is something. His power will be limited. He will get dogged and bogged down in the Houses, and perhaps reluctantly (though I doubt it), be a custodian of the office that is allowed to be appointed to him for 'change'. Then eventually the Tories will have their turn to backlash. Constrained and employed as they all are.

Now don't get me wrong, 'parliamentary democracy' isn't a total disaster in terms of appointing (always disappointing) people to undertake the designs of conservatism. It cannot control every facet and current that is working against it. But it will try eventually to co-opt it. They will even treat you nicely/kindly at times to much jubilation and elation, but the only aim is to further their own agenda to, yes, subjugate you and temporarily give you a small rebate of what they take from you. Of what is or should be yours. For this you have to bend your knee, celebrate them and give it all back next time around.

And when that second act follows you will be subject to the lust and gratification of the rulers, of those who rule you and gull you with hope.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I think Corbyn's time might actually now be up as leader. Unless the Labour Party splits and he can continue to lead a somewhat smaller party. His allies are getting picked off, he's caved on the second ref. Seems to be done.

Anyone else see an end in sight? (although of course and end can also be a beginning yada yada)

 

[Teaboy]

I think Corbyn's time might actually now be up as leader. Unless the Labour Party splits and he can continue to lead a somewhat smaller party. His allies are getting picked off, he's caved on the second ref. Seems to be done.

Anyone else see an end in sight? (although of course and end can also be a beginning yada yada)

Things are looking particularly sticky for sure. Brexit has been a virtually impossible situation for both leaders of the main parties to navigate. Whichever way you lean there will be substantial faction of your party kicking off. Throw into that all the other concerted attacks and he looks as vulnerable now as he's done since the election.

I'm not sure "caved" is the right word for the 2nd ref thing though. He has mentioned on numerous occasions that the Labour Party is democratic, the path was laid out for him and despite trying to find another way he's had to follow the path in the end. Its just a calculation though to appease the factions in Labour that want it knowing it probably won't get through parliament.

May is essentially a remain supporter who is leader of party that mostly wants to leave and Corbyn is a leave leader of a party that mostly wants to remain.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Things are looking particularly sticky for sure. Brexit has been a virtually impossible situation for both leaders of the main parties to navigate. Whichever way you lean there will be substantial faction of your party kicking off. Throw into that all the other concerted attacks and he looks as vulnerable now as he's done since the election.

I'm not sure "caved" is the right word for the 2nd ref thing though. He has mentioned on numerous occasions that the Labour Party is democratic, the path was laid out for him and despite trying to find another way he's had to follow the path in the end. Its just a calculation though to appease the factions in Labour that want it knowing it probably won't get through parliament.

May is essentially a remain supporter who is leader of party that mostly wants to leave and Corbyn is a leave leader of a party that mostly wants to remain.

Most of the Tory party would like to Remain.

I'm not sure if I buy the calculation - that might be how he sees it but it isn't how anyone else will see it.

E2A: Just realised you're probably talking about the memberships. Fair point.

 

[Badgers]

Things are looking particularly sticky for sure. Brexit has been a virtually impossible situation for both leaders of the main parties to navigate. Whichever way you lean there will be substantial faction of your party kicking off. Throw into that all the other concerted attacks and he looks as vulnerable now as he's done since the election.

I'm not sure "caved" is the right word for the 2nd ref thing though. He has mentioned on numerous occasions that the Labour Party is democratic, the path was laid out for him and despite trying to find another way he's had to follow the path in the end. Its just a calculation though to appease the factions in Labour that want it knowing it probably won't get through parliament.

May is essentially a remain supporter who is leader of party that mostly wants to leave and Corbyn is a leave leader of a party that mostly wants to remain.

Most of the Tory party would like to Remain.

I'm not sure if I buy the calculation - that might be how he sees it but it isn't how anyone else will see it.

This shows the flaws in British politics

 

[Teaboy]

Most of the Tory party would like to Remain.

I'm not sure if I buy the calculation - that might be how he sees it but it isn't how anyone else will see it.

E2A: Just realised you're probably talking about the memberships. Fair point.

No, I was talking about the political parties. Most of the tory MP's might be remain in their heart but think the result of the referendum should be respected and are resigned to leave. Remember most of them keep voting for May's plan, its the relatively small amount of Europhiles who are ganging up with the ERG types and the opposition benches that keep sinking May.

Corbyn's aides have been briefing journo's in that is how they see the second ref. We've been here before, remember the whole majority for nothing conversations. There isn't a majority in the house so it won't get through without something drastically changing.

 

[Teaboy]

This shows the flaws in British politics

British politics has more flaws than a central European industrial techno club.



Joke works better when not written down.

 

[tommers]

I think Corbyn's time might actually now be up as leader. Unless the Labour Party splits and he can continue to lead a somewhat smaller party. His allies are getting picked off, he's caved on the second ref. Seems to be done.

Anyone else see an end in sight? (although of course and end can also be a beginning yada yada)

Yeah I think they will finally get what they want. The grinder has done its job. Chuka and his cronies will come back into the fold and we can all get back to two parties who both want to cut welfare and continue austerity, whilst both reassuring themselves about just how awful it all is. "It's just so awful isn't it? All these difficult decisions. And me a socialist too".

He's done well to last this long to be fair to him.

The Czech intelligence agencies will be upset. Another source of info gone. I worry about them, they are the real victims.

 

[kebabking]

...The Czech intelligence agencies will be upset. Another source of info gone. I worry about them, they are the real victims.

I pity the career prospects of any Warsaw Pact Intelligence Officer who wrote up his 'take' on UK military policy based on the musings of one J Corbyn esq...

 

[Pickman's model]

This shows the flaws in British politics

#brokenbritain

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I think Corbyn's time might actually now be up as leader. Unless the Labour Party splits and he can continue to lead a somewhat smaller party. His allies are getting picked off, he's caved on the second ref. Seems to be done.

Anyone else see an end in sight? (although of course and end can also be a beginning yada yada)

It looks like it might be, but then again I thought he was doomed after the vote of no confidence. He's a fighter, that no one can deny. But despite Corbyn supporters gaining power over much the machinery of the party the main stumbling block to progressive change remains the largely reactionary and corrupt neo-Blairites of the PLP. Short of mass deselection of these wankers there's little hope of reviving the leftwing social democratic tradition in British politics.

 

[killer b]

His time isn't up, don't be ridiculous. For all the drama of the last couple of weeks his position is totally safe, and his political tendency is in control of almost all parts of the party.

 

[SpackleFrog]

His time isn't up, don't be ridiculous. For all the drama of the last couple of weeks his position is totally safe, and his political tendency is in control of almost all parts of the party.

Really?

I have to say, I'm not sure I buy it. But then he's managed to hang in there for a while now.

 

[Shechemite]

Doesn’t look like there is any likelihood of a leadership challenge

 

[killer b]

How is his end going to come about? There's no challenger, and no real prospect of a challenger winning even if there was one. The only way he's going is if he walks, and that is just not happening.

 

[Shechemite]

So what then? More infighting, resignations etc?

 

[agricola]

How is his end going to come about? There's no challenger, and no real prospect of a challenger winning even if there was one. The only way he's going is if he walks, and that is just not happening.

There is absolutely no challenger - largely because the opposition have not spent any effort trying to develop one - but he could easily just wake up one morning and think (not unreasonably) that he is too old for all this.

It cannot be healthy to work at a place where most of your peers openly profess to hate you and where everything you do is spun to put you in the most negative light, often by people who are themselves absolutely awful human beings. I admire the way he has stuck it out these past few years, but everyone has their limit.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

So what then? More infighting, resignations etc?

This is it. killer b is right, Corbyn is rock solid and controls all areas of the party bar the PLP. Even the failure to build a commanding lead over the worst government in memory does not imperil this.

A better question is how can that be the case whilst at the same time the ideas he was elected to progress are being pushed back and not forward and in some cases have become discredited.

 

[SpackleFrog]

How is his end going to come about? There's no challenger, and no real prospect of a challenger winning even if there was one. The only way he's going is if he walks, and that is just not happening.

You are probably right. But there'll be a GE this year and if he doesn't win - and I'm not sure how he can at this stage but that's maybe me getting too wrapped up in the media - then he's gone.

 

[Teaboy]

This is it. killer b is right, Corbyn is rock solid and controls all areas of the party bar the PLP. Even the failure to build a commanding lead over the worst government in memory does not imperil this.

You say this and I'd be inclined to agree but how representative are we? It seems to me that a surprisingly large amount of people out there think that May is doing a pretty decent job and should just be allowed to get on with it.

 

[Shechemite]

This is it. killer b is right, Corbyn is rock solid and controls all areas of the party bar the PLP. Even the failure to build a commanding lead over the worst government in memory does not imperil this.

A better question is how can that be the case whilst at the same time the ideas he was elected to progress are being pushed back and not forward and in some cases have become discredited.

The renationalisation and anti-austerity positions are popular though (aren’t they?)

 

[Shechemite]

It seems to me that a surprisingly large amount of people out there think that May is doing a pretty decent job and should just be allowed to get on with it.

Really?

 

[Shechemite]

You are probably right. But there'll be a GE this year and if he doesn't win - and I'm not sure how he can at this stage but that's maybe me getting too wrapped up in the media - then he's gone.

Not being entirely au fait with the process here, but how would this work?

 

[Pickman's model]

Really?

what's the really for, that it really seems to Teaboy that lots of people think tm's doing a surprisingly good job?