Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[killer b]

What are they saying about the Labour antisemitism row in the terraces and working mens clubs of Mansfield? I have to say I don't think this is a substantial part of Labour's divide from the class.

 

[billbond]

What are they saying about the Labour antisemitism row in the terraces and working mens clubs of Mansfield? I have to say I don't think this is a substantial part of Labour's divide from the class.

Being Mansfield voted for Brexit i think they are used to being put down and ignored.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Being Mansfield voted for Brexit i think they are used to being put down and ignored.

Spot on. But the cleavage occurred long before Brexit. I'd suggest it began in the mid 1960's, it was deliberately accelerated with Blair and chums and under Corbyn vague attempts to reconnect have missed the mark. His team have clearly decided the coalition of the cities, the middle class, the cobweb left and young voters can get the job done. It's a pity because some of the genuinely social democratic ideas emerging from McDonnell - a national investment bank, making the BoE set growth targets, public control and investment in services - do offer at least the beginning of a route away from the trajectory of the last 40 years.

 

[JimW]

making the b

..astards suffer for once?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

..astards suffer for once?

Finger slip - I was trembling with excitement at the very idea of a national investment bank

 

[treelover]

yes, as long as it is somewhere in the North.

 

[Mr Moose]

And working class

Sure Labour lost some of its relied upon working class vote, but don’t overplay it. The world isn’t fundamentally different to what it was pre-Brexit. There will always be plonkers like you to cheer on the nationalists.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

yes, as long as it is somewhere in the North.

Birmingham, so even better.

 

[billbond]

Sure Labour lost some of its relied upon working class vote, but don’t overplay it. The world isn’t fundamentally different to what it was pre-Brexit. There will always be plonkers like you to cheer on the nationalists.

And plonkers like you who look down on the North like fanatics do.

 

[treelover]

I was right to confront Jeremy Corbyn over Labour’s antisemitism | Margaret Hodge

Hodges explanation

 

[Mr Moose]

And plonkers like you who look down on the North like fanatics do.

Right, so I look down on my wife. Nice.

The difference is, unlike you,I haven’t got a phoney solution to peddle.

 

[agricola]

Spot on. But the cleavage occurred long before Brexit. I'd suggest it began in the mid 1960's, it was deliberately accelerated with Blair and chums and under Corbyn vague attempts to reconnect have missed the mark. His team have clearly decided the coalition of the cities, the middle class, the cobweb left and young voters can get the job done. It's a pity because some of the genuinely social democratic ideas emerging from McDonnell - a national investment bank, making the BoE set growth targets, public control and investment in services - do offer at least the beginning of a route away from the trajectory of the last 40 years.

I am not sure they've decided not to target the working class, though there is definately a large part of the team around Corbyn that appears to have no idea how to engage with them and appears to have assumed that the gammon among them are forever lost.

Of course that is perhaps the biggest indication of how far from reality some of the leadership support network are because they are probably the easiest group for Corbyn to go after - the only reason "immigration" is so much of a focus for them is because so many of them have actually experienced losing their jobs, actually have seen their kids have to rely on agency work and genuinely do see things becoming increasingly unaffordable - and (edit) they have been told migration is to blame, in most cases at least once a week for decades. Many of them will also have seen friends and family go into the forces, experience what they have and then seen what happens to them during and after their service.

Show them whose fault all that is, that its down to domestic policy (and in the case of the Coalition and Tories deliberate domestic policy) and that sizeable chunk of the electorate will vote Labour again. The failure to do this, especially over the Coalition / Tory record on defence between 2010 and now, was unforgiveable prior to the last election and is doubly so now.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Of course that is perhaps the biggest indication of how far from reality some of the leadership support network are because they are probably the easiest group for Corbyn to go after - the only reason "immigration" is so much of a focus for them is because so many of them have actually experienced losing their jobs, actually have seen their kids have to rely on agency work and genuinely do see things becoming increasingly unaffordable - and (edit) they have been told migration is to blame, in most cases at least once a week for decades. Many of them will also have seen friends and family go into the forces, experience what they have and then seen what happens to them during and after their service.

I think this is largely correct.

And rather than meet and listen to them from this starting point the left often remotely criticises them for their privilege checking failure/racism/‘nostalgia’ for a period when they were portrayed at the salt of the earth instead of the scum of the earth/failure to act as the left expects etc etc

 

[belboid]

Jared O'Mara quits Labour. Trying to play the sympathy card (after abusing various women) about poor little him. Not getting too much sympathy locally.

Jared O'Mara quits Labour, saying he was 'made to feel like a criminal'

Now the fucker is taking more time off. Won’t be bothering to attend parliament. No mention of not taking all his salary though.

MP to cut back duties on health grounds

 

[ska invita]

tories on the ropes, labour pulling ahead in the polls - and we get another load of shit flung at corbyn by the plp malcontents. its almost like its .... deliberate.

Excuse the pedantry, but just to say that its a bit of a mischaracterisation to say Labour are pulling away in the polls....they've flat-lined on 40% for a time now. Its UKIP which has pulled away and eaten into Tory numbers.

Talking of splitting votes and deliberate sabotage I heard some gossip this week from someone with pretty good insight saying that there is a high chance of a new centrist party forming before the year is out, with the primary objective of splitting the Labour vote to keep Corbyn out of power. I thought the whole new party thing was doomed and pointless so wouldn't happen, but I could imagine these psychopaths going through with it just to stop Corbyn.

 

[billbond]

Excuse the pedantry, but just to say that its a bit of a mischaracterisation to say Labour are pulling away in the polls....they've flat-lined on 40% for a time now. Its UKIP which has pulled away and eaten into Tory numbers.

Talking of splitting votes and deliberate sabotage I heard some gossip this week from someone with pretty good insight saying that there is a high chance of a new centrist party forming before the year is out, with the primary objective of splitting the Labour vote to keep Corbyn out of power. I thought the whole new party thing was doomed and pointless so wouldn't happen, but I could imagine these psychopaths going through with it just to stop Corbyn.

Good post
In ref to a new centrist party i have seen this mentioned all over the net.
Something new is needed thats for sure

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Show them whose fault all that is, that its down to domestic policy (and in the case of the Coalition and Tories deliberate domestic policy) and that sizeable chunk of the electorate will vote Labour again. The failure to do this, especially over the Coalition / Tory record on defence between 2010 and now, was unforgiveable prior to the last election and is doubly so now.

I do remember Jeremy Corbyn being reported (think it was in the run up to the referendum not the general election) saying that the state of the NHS (and so on) is due to tory cuts, not immigration.

Snag is, most of the media didn't report it, and most of the media won't - it suits them and their paymasters to blame everything on the last labour government and / or immigrants.

 

[agricola]

I do remember Jeremy Corbyn being reported (think it was in the run up to the referendum not the general election) saying that the state of the NHS (and so on) is due to tory cuts, not immigration.

Snag is, most of the media didn't report it, and most of the media won't - it suits them and their paymasters to blame everything on the last labour government and / or immigrants.

I know the media won't, but that is no excuse for Labour to not mention it.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I know the media won't, but that is no excuse for Labour to not mention it.

From a Corbyn perspective, the whole communications machine needs purging with an iron broom (or at least a polite reminder that maybe they ought to be following agreed party policy not their own blairite agenda - see

So it turns out the staffers at Labour HQ were targetting the leadership teams facebook ads directly at Corbyn and team whilst running their own personal campaign independently:

Corbyn supporters attack Labour moderates for 'using targeted Facebook ads to trick him during general election'

 

[agricola]

Talking of splitting votes and deliberate sabotage I heard some gossip this week from someone with pretty good insight saying that there is a high chance of a new centrist party forming before the year is out, with the primary objective of splitting the Labour vote to keep Corbyn out of power. I thought the whole new party thing was doomed and pointless so wouldn't happen, but I could imagine these psychopaths going through with it just to stop Corbyn.

There has been talk of this for ages, but it always encounters the problem that there is no centrist figurehead to rally around, nor is there a pool of talent among the MPs that would potentially join, nor is there a reason why normal people would go out of their way to support it with their time and effort, nor is there even a compelling reason why anyone would vote for them - they can't even make the daft claim that Macron did to be the change that is needed because they are the reason why change is needed. Even UKIP had a more plausible reason to vote for it than the new centrism would.

The nature of the centrist / "professional" political class requires a host organization which contains a name, a mythos, and actual people to donate their time going around knocking on doors and whatnot in order to facilitate their climb to the top. Without that they are screwed, irrespective of how much money they are given and how many columnists line up to praise this breath of fresh air sweeping through Westminster.

 

[ska invita]

Something new is needed thats for sure

lol

There has been talk of this for ages, but it always encounters the problem that there is no centrist figurehead to rally around, nor is there a pool of talent among the MPs that would potentially join, nor is there a reason why normal people would go out of their way to support it with their time and effort, nor is there even a compelling reason why anyone would vote for them - they can't even make the daft claim that Macron did to be the change that is needed because they are the reason why change is needed. Even UKIP had a more plausible reason to vote for it than the new centrism would.

The nature of the centrist / "professional" political class requires a host organization which contains a name, a mythos, and actual people to donate their time going around knocking on doors and whatnot in order to facilitate their climb to the top. Without that they are screwed, irrespective of how much money they are given and how many columnists line up to praise this breath of fresh air sweeping through Westminster.

I think the latest thinking is that if/when Chequers proposal gets voted down anything and everything is possible in the subsequent crisis... Whatever, will see soon enough.

 

[killer b]

I'm someone with pretty good insight, and I reckon there is no chance of a new centrist party before the year is out. Can I have his job if I'm right?

 

[ska invita]

I'm someone with pretty good insight, and I reckon there is no chance of a new centrist party before the year is out. Can I have his job if I'm right?

of course anything can happen yet...he knew there was going to be a snap election and knew labour knew and were prepared for it so i hold his opinion to some value...uncharted waters ahead though.

 

[killer b]

Uncharted waters through which the good ship new centrist party will not be sailing.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

the problem that there is no centrist figurehead to rally around

"Tony Blair says Brexit issue has tempted him to return to politics" (BBC interview a year or so back)

 

[danny la rouge]

"Tony Blair says Brexit issue has tempted him to return to politics" (BBC interview a year or so back)

Of course, whatever words follow the phrase "Tony Blair says" must, by definition, be untrue.

 

[ska invita]

Uncharted waters through which the good ship new centrist party will not be sailing.

i feel the same way you do, i cant imagine it, and it may prove to be hot air, but i think what it does point to is that theres going to be some mad scrambling and plotting for what happens next if the Brexit deal gets voted down in November/early December.

 

[redsquirrel]

Right, so I look down on my wife. Nice.

The difference is, unlike you,I haven’t got a phoney solution to peddle.

Hang on your proposed solution was to ditch Corbyn and for, another person on the Labour left to be elected leader - somehow you never explained how this person was to get on the ballot considering the rules at the time.

So do you still want to see Corbyn gone? And replaced by who?

Talking of splitting votes and deliberate sabotage I heard some gossip this week from someone with pretty good insight saying that there is a high chance of a new centrist party forming before the year is out, with the primary objective of splitting the Labour vote to keep Corbyn out of power.

On what basis is this person with insight making this prediction?

Because it sounds like the re-heated nonsense based on a poor understanding of the UK parliamentary system that has been going around and around for the last three years. There simply isn't enough space for another centrist party in the UK, the LD vote dropped at the last election. Even Labour MPs have enough sense/self-interest to see that they got in (on increased majorities for many of them) on the back of the Labour Party, they aren't going to throw that away.

 

[Poi E]

Excuse the pedantry, but just to say that its a bit of a mischaracterisation to say Labour are pulling away in the polls....they've flat-lined on 40% for a time now. Its UKIP which has pulled away and eaten into Tory numbers.

Talking of splitting votes and deliberate sabotage I heard some gossip this week from someone with pretty good insight saying that there is a high chance of a new centrist party forming before the year is out, with the primary objective of splitting the Labour vote to keep Corbyn out of power. I thought the whole new party thing was doomed and pointless so wouldn't happen, but I could imagine these psychopaths going through with it just to stop Corbyn.

The SNP are going to field candidates in England? Probably do quite well.

 

[J Ed]

Excuse the pedantry, but just to say that its a bit of a mischaracterisation to say Labour are pulling away in the polls....they've flat-lined on 40% for a time now. Its UKIP which has pulled away and eaten into Tory numbers.

Talking of splitting votes and deliberate sabotage I heard some gossip this week from someone with pretty good insight saying that there is a high chance of a new centrist party forming before the year is out, with the primary objective of splitting the Labour vote to keep Corbyn out of power. I thought the whole new party thing was doomed and pointless so wouldn't happen, but I could imagine these psychopaths going through with it just to stop Corbyn.

A centrist party has been about to form imminently for years now. I wouldn't rule it out entirely as a a last ditch spoiler tactic, but agree with killer b it is unlikely that it is going to happen.