Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Brixton Hatter]

you're david cameron??

Absolutely not. We left mini hatter in a decent boozer with good ale and cheap sandwiches

 

[Wilf]

Boyson was Labour!

Yep, and alleged nonce.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Just on the relatability thing:

Shortly after I saw Rayner's speech, I saw a clip of someone interviewing Rupa Huq. Now, I think she's a perfectly nice person, and not as... problematic as some of them in the PLP. But anyway. She was asked what jobs she had before she became an MP, and she said the usual stuff like working at WHSmiths. Then she said her job right before becoming an MP was lecturing, and in fact she was still lecturing afterwards because she hadn't wanted to hand in her resignation before the election since it was a swing seat and she might be out of a job. Then she said, "so I was sitting as an MP, and I was still marking exam papers. That brings you back down to earth, I can tell you."

Does it?

Does it?

Which earth would that be? Not the same one the majority of Labour Party voters would recognise.

 

[nino_savatte]

Just on the relatability thing:

Shortly after I saw Rayner's speech, I saw a clip of someone interviewing Rupa Huq. Now, I think she's a perfectly nice person, and not as... problematic as some of them in the PLP. But anyway. She was asked what jobs she had before she became an MP, and she said the usual stuff like working at WHSmiths. Then she said her job right before becoming an MP was lecturing, and in fact she was still lecturing afterwards because she hadn't wanted to hand in her resignation before the election since it was a swing seat and she might be out of a job. Then she said, "so I was sitting as an MP, and I was still marking exam papers. That brings you back down to earth, I can tell you."

Does it?

Does it?

Which earth would that be? Not the same one the majority of Labour Party voters would recognise.

She lectures at Kingston University and her specialism is hip-hop iirc. She's also Konnie Huq's sister - if that means owt.

 

[belboid]

Lol. I used to remember Reg Race being in just about any platform that Socialist Organiser organised.sure he used to contribute to their paper and some other Trots in the Labour Party's paper. Was definitely on the Bennite left. Anyone else remember him?

The first man to (officially) say 'fuck' in parliament. And then the man that managed to lose Chesterfield to the libscum, after Benn retired.

 

[Vintage Paw]

I know. (to nino)

 

[two sheds]

Just on the relatability thing:

Shortly after I saw Rayner's speech, I saw a clip of someone interviewing Rupa Huq. Now, I think she's a perfectly nice person, and not as... problematic as some of them in the PLP. But anyway. She was asked what jobs she had before she became an MP, and she said the usual stuff like working at WHSmiths. Then she said her job right before becoming an MP was lecturing, and in fact she was still lecturing afterwards because she hadn't wanted to hand in her resignation before the election since it was a swing seat and she might be out of a job. Then she said, "so I was sitting as an MP, and I was still marking exam papers. That brings you back down to earth, I can tell you."

Does it?

Does it?

Which earth would that be? Not the same one the majority of Labour Party voters would recognise.

I dunno, sorry, I've never marked exam papers but I'd say it counts as valuable work.

 

[J Ed]

Just on the relatability thing:

Shortly after I saw Rayner's speech, I saw a clip of someone interviewing Rupa Huq. Now, I think she's a perfectly nice person, and not as... problematic as some of them in the PLP. But anyway. She was asked what jobs she had before she became an MP, and she said the usual stuff like working at WHSmiths. Then she said her job right before becoming an MP was lecturing, and in fact she was still lecturing afterwards because she hadn't wanted to hand in her resignation before the election since it was a swing seat and she might be out of a job. Then she said, "so I was sitting as an MP, and I was still marking exam papers. That brings you back down to earth, I can tell you."

Does it?

Does it?

Which earth would that be? Not the same one the majority of Labour Party voters would recognise.

Surely it depends on your position in the university, a lot of academics are very poorly paid and do not have great conditions at all. Rupa Huq appears to be a senior lecturer, so obviously that does not apply to her, though I suppose compared to the background of some MPs it might be constitute a modest salary.

 

[J Ed]

I dunno, sorry, I've never marked exam papers but I'd say it counts as valuable work.

I don't think anyone questioned that either way

 

[Vintage Paw]

I don't think anyone questioned that either way

Indeed.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Surely it depends on your position in the university, a lot of academics are very poorly paid and do not have great conditions at all. Rupa Huq appears to be a senior lecturer, so obviously that does not apply to her, though I suppose compared to the background of some MPs it might be constitute a modest salary.

My point, as I stated right at the top of that post, was about relatability. I'm not bashing university lecturers or the act of marking exam papers (him indoors wouldn't be too pleased if I was). Relating to other academics isn't the same as having broad working class appeal.

 

[seventh bullet]

I know a fair few people who could be a trendy teacher but never will.

 

[kabbes]

In the last election, I remember some callow youth pushing Ed Miliband on what actual real life experience he had and Miliband's best effort was to talk about the time he spent as a lecturer in Harvard. Car crash telly.

 

[J Ed]

In the last election, I remember some callow youth pushing Ed Miliband on what actual real life experience he had and Miliband's best effort was to talk about the time he spent as a lecturer in Harvard. Car crash telly.

In the run up to the last election someone I worked with told me that they were voting UKIP, not Labour, because Ed Miliband was privately educated. Now obviously Farage was privately educated and Miliband was not but if anything I think those facts demonstrate exactly what you are saying.

 

[seventh bullet]

It's relative isn't it but I'd love the modest salary of a lecturer.

 

[inva]

Since the thread was talking about the women's initiative stuff, as well as working class stuff, I don't know if Angela Rayner's mini-speech was linked to or not, but I thought it was really good.

It showed how to talk about women's issues without it being empty, and tied it to class and poverty and education, and issues that will be far closer to most people's experiences than the stuff some other politicians come out with.

If we want more working class politicians, we want them to sound like her (not just in accent - but accent of course has an effect), and not Alan Johnson, for example. She spoke with a passion that showed she absolutely understood what it is to struggle and be ground down. Can you imagine her talking to constituents about their problems, and contrast it to someone like Tristram talking to his? Just that initial impression has an impact. But beyond that, for someone like Tristram those struggles are abstract. For someone like her they're a reality. (I'm not suggesting she's the second coming, I don't know much else about her tbh.)

It's not as easy as Corbs saying "right, 75% of all MPs must have worked in a factory" or whatever. As I wrote in another post, while he has some power, the party machinery (NEC and McNicol, and then region below them) have substantially more when it comes to things like shortlists and the like. It's easy for Corbyn to make his pledges about all-women shortlists - not least because Labour already has them (not sure what's so different about his conception of them) - because that's the way the wind is already blowing and there are few who would disagree with the general point. But all-working class shortlists? Quite apart from the impossibility of deciding what the criteria would be, it would be a policy based firmly in class, and the wind very much is not blowing in that direction in wider politics/society. It's pushing back against it, in fact. So it would require one heck of a lot more manoeuvring before it could be a manifesto point or party policy, or even a vague intention. For a start, McNicol needs to go, and then regional officers. But they're all employed, and not elected, so the way it's done would have to be very delicate to say the least. I hope the new NEC starts that work when they come in after conference, but the new 6 on the NEC aren't the only ones on there, so it's not like they suddenly have a clear road ahead of them to do what they want. McNicol's still there, for a start.

I agree he needs to make it clear he wants 'ordinary people' coming into the ranks as MPs and administrative officers. A very overt announcement would be great, but I don't think it's going to happen in the way it did with something like all-women shortlists. This is the stuff of backroom manoeuvring. It's ensuring new members get involved in their CLPs so they can eventually stand for local positions, and it's getting rid of McNicol and regional officers so they can't stitch up selections, and it's getting those local people in a position where they can start standing, and actually have a chance of winning a selection (which is rare precisely because of the stitch-up culture; you'll get some golden boy parachuted in and region will fix it so the only others on the shortlist are really so abysmally dire you wouldn't vote for them even if they are a lefty - that plus other underhand shenanigans). It's the long game, which is incredibly frustrating of course.

I didn't really think Corbyn was going to implement all working class shortlists or a 60:40 ratio, just to be clear
christ though, is it really worth playing this long game in Labour? According to that poll from a few days ago, about 40% of your own membership/supporters dislike Corbyn enough to vote for a total incompetent, unredeemable waste of space like Owen Smith. And if they boot out enough Corbyn supporters maybe they can increase that by a couple more percent. What a state Labour is in. All these battles you have to fight - what if they challenge him again? Then you've got to sort out the NEC some more, deselections, all sorts of rules in the party to overturn...

Meanwhile the closest I've heard anyone outside the internet come to a positive thing to say about Corbyn has been a bit of mild sympathy with the way he gets attacked all the time in the media - similar to Ed Miliband in that respect. It still is relatively early days I guess, but that's kind of the point too isn't it? There's such a long way to go.

 

[nino_savatte]

It's relative isn't it but I'd love the modest salary of a lecturer.

If you're an Hourly Paid Lecturer, you may be earning £50 an hour, but you're only getting between 2 and 4 hours a week. A lot of universities are operating in this way. Meanwhile VCs are swanning around on £600k+ per annum.

 

[two sheds]

Indeed.

Yes fair play I was seeing it from her pov - "I'd like to be off doing something else that I enjoy but I've got to be sat here judging whether some young idiot has understood what we've been teaching them" rather than a house painter got back from a day's work.

Still think she's got a point though.

 

[seventh bullet]

If you're an Hourly Paid Lecturer, you may be earning £50 an hour, but you're only getting between 2 and 4 hours a week. A lot of universities are operating in this way. Meanwhile VCs are swanning around on £600k+ per annum.

One of my co-workers was on nearly 9 quid an hour but had her hours reduced from 24 to 8 (original contract) last year. Thank goodness she still lives with her parents. It isn't an exercise in being prolier than thou, just an illustration. Seems like similar things are happening to the unskilled as well as highly educated.

 

[nino_savatte]

One of my co-workers was on nearly 9 quid an hour but had her hours reduced from 24 to 8 (original contract) last year. Thank goodness she still lives with her parents. It isn't an exercise in being prolier than thou, just an illustration. Seems like similar things are happening to the unskilled as well as highly educated.

Zero hours and temporary contracts are being pushed all over the place - especially in the public sector, where wages have been frozen for years.

 

[two sheds]

One of my co-workers was on nearly 9 quid an hour but had her hours reduced from 24 to 8 (original contract) last year. Thank goodness she still lives with her parents. It isn't an exercise in being prolier than thou, just an illustration. Seems like similar things are happening to the unskilled as well as highly educated.

why although i totally understand it, I think the stress on only the working class is a mistake. The middle class are getting squeezed too. There's a lot of them and we need them to be onside too. And no reason why they shouldn't be.

 

[seventh bullet]

why although i totally understand it, I think the stress on only the working class is a mistake. The middle class are getting squeezed too. There's a lot of them and we need them to be onside too. And no reason why they shouldn't be.

Most people who consider themselves to be middle class I'd consider to be prole like me. And when the media has been talking about the squeezed middle it's about people far from those. It's almost as if millions of people don't exist in this society.

The battleground is where this needs to be recognised and differences argued. And a 'working class' politics which either consciously or unconsciously reproduces these divisions is not very useful to me.

 

[seventh bullet]

Zero hours and temporary contracts are being pushed all over the place - especially in the public sector, where wages have been frozen for years.

Sure. Here too.

 

[inva]

Most people who consider themselves to be middle class I'd consider to be prole like me. And when the media has been talking about the squeezed middle it's about people far from those. It's almost as if millions of people don't exist in this society.

The battleground is where this needs to be recognised and differences argued. And a 'working class' politics which either consciously or unconsciously reproduces these divisions is not very useful to me.

and this being onside in cross class alliances seems usually to mean in practice middle class dominance of movements/organisations

 

[seventh bullet]

And fuck the well-fed public schoolboy saying class isn't a useful concept.

 

[Sprocket.]

Zero hours and temporary contracts are being pushed all over the place - especially in the public sector, where wages have been frozen for years.

They are multiplying all the time.
It is a shame there is no effective opposition to their implementation in Westminster.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Zero hours and temporary contracts are being pushed all over the place - especially in the public sector, where wages have been frozen for years.

Our branch (Brighton) have done the math - in the last 9 years, us council bods have taken a 22% pay cut, whilst we're fed these fucking 1% pay rises every 2-3 years.

 

[seventh bullet]

and this being onside in cross class alliances seems usually to mean in practice middle class dominance of movements/organisations

Yep.

 

[nino_savatte]

Our branch (Brighton) have done the math - in the last 9 years, us council bods have taken a 22% pay cut, whilst we're fed these fucking 1% pay rises every 2-3 years.

And many if not all council chief executives earn more than the PM. It's fucking obscene.

 

[nino_savatte]

They are multiplying all the time.
It is a shame there is no effective opposition to their implementation in Westminster.

I don't think Mr. Normal's had anything to say on the subject of casualisation. I don't think he cares. Neither do any of the other megalomaniacs.