Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[coley]

Being popping around the various Corbyn related threads, now my, somewhat limited understanding, was that Corbyns main objectives were to 're-nationalise' or, if you like bring back into public ownership) the railways and the core utilities, water, energy ( in its various forms) plus an investment bank that would focus on financing infrastructure such as social housing.
Is he now retreating from these commitments or were they never really solid commitments in the first place?

 

[brogdale]

Being popping around the various Corbyn related threads, now my, somewhat limited understanding, was that Corbyns main objectives were to 're-nationalise' or, if you like bring back into public ownership) the railways and the core utilities, water, energy ( in its various forms) plus an investment bank that would focus on financing infrastructure such as social housing.
Is he now retreating from these commitments or were they never really solid commitments in the first place?

Look up what Smith says tomorrow; that should help clear up Corbyn's latest position.

 

[The Boy]

Stonehaven rings a bell because that's where I was staying at the time

Oh, I can quite believe it to be a legitimate claim - the outlaws live so that way, and nothing will surprise me about that part of the world.

It was more that you initially said SW, then remembered that it was at the polar opposite end of the country. For some reason this tickled me.

 

[tony.c]

my, somewhat limited understanding, was that Corbyns main objectives were to 're-nationalise' or, if you like bring back into public ownership) the railways and the core utilities, water, energy ( in its various forms) plus an investment bank that would focus on financing infrastructure such as social housing.
Is he now retreating from these commitments or were they never really solid commitments in the first place?

I don't think he has made any commitment to bring core utilities back into public ownership, only the railways.
The pledges he has made are here: Pledges

 

[two sheds]

Oh, I can quite believe it to be a legitimate claim - the outlaws live so that way, and nothing will surprise me about that part of the world.

It was more that you initially said SW, then remembered that it was at the polar opposite end of the country. For some reason this tickled me.

Aha - my dad came from the area and I was visiting an aunt who lived there. And @ 'outlaws'

Conversely explains your 'far north' remark, I was thinking 'not really far north of Scotland'.

 

[tony.c]

I don't know if this has been posted yet. London cabbie rants about Corbyn (in a good way!):

 

[butchersapron]

I don't think he has made any commitment to bring core utilities back into public ownership, only the railways.
The pledges he has made are here: Pledges

5 secures amongst the guff.

Viral

 

[inva]

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but it has gone viral apparently. London cabbie rants about Corbyn (in a good way!):

he's such a prick

 

[toblerone3]

I don't think he has made any commitment to bring core utilities back into public ownership, only the railways.
The pledges he has made are here: Pledges

Very threadbare I'm afraid and his promises on Rail Nationalisation are wrong-headed as a a big part of the issue with the railways is due to regulatory capture and fleecing by the publicly-owned part of the railways - Network Rail. Maybe Network Rail should be privatised along with the nationalisation of the TOCs.

 

[Pickman's model]

Very threadbare I'm afraid and his promises on Rail Nationalisation are wrong-headed as a a big part of the issue with the railways is due to regulatory capture and fleecing by the publicly-owned part of the railways - Network Rail. Maybe Network Rail should be privatised along with the nationalisation of the TOCs.

Perhaps when the toc nationalised the whole can be more rationally structured.

 

[Fez909]

Maybe Network Rail should be privatised

That went well last time.

 

[Cid]

Nah he wouldn't eat matzo crackers as he is a secret anti-semite who should be purged from the party.
He only eats vegetables grown on his allotment. He's a vegetarian - like Hitler.

Only the purest Aryan Knackebrod will do for Corbyn.

 

[toblerone3]

Perhaps when the toc nationalised the whole can be more rationally structured.

I'm sure that there are some synergies, but I think the problem goes deeper than that. There are, I believe, deeply entrenched coteries of middle level and junior managers within Network Rail who charge very high fees; have a monopoly on very rare skillsets and expertise on regulation and who have resisted years, if not decades of attempts to rationalise. Its not just the senior managers it goes through the whole organisation. I have some experience of this through my involvement in building a new train station in London over the past few years.

My comment about privatisation was a bit flippant btw it was just reflecting a feeling that there needed to be a really big root and branch shakeup of the whole organisation and entrenched interests within the organisation were experts at confounding less than thoroughgoing reviews.

 

[Fez909]

I'm sure that there are some synergies, but I think the problem goes deeper than that. There are, I believe, deeply entrenched coteries of middle level and junior managers within Network Rail who charge very high fees; have a monopoly on very rare skillsets and expertise on regulation and who have resisted years, if not decades of attempts to rationalise. Its not just the senior managers it goes through the whole organisation. I have some experience of this through my involvement in building a new train station in London over the past few years.

Network Rail hasn't existed for decades.

Also "synergies"?

 

[toblerone3]

Network Rail hasn't existed for decades.

Also "synergies"?

Yeah I know 'synergies' but it does have a real meaning in English. Network Rail hasn't existed for decades but before it there was Railtrack and before that British Rail.

 

[redsquirrel]

And "rationalise", lovely. Maybe what's needed is more flexibility.

 

[newbie]

That went well last time.

every time a train was late the government got the blame. Corbyn bleating about renationalisation is nothing like as corrosive for our rulers as daily calls for the minister of transport to be ritually boiled alive.

 

[Fez909]

every time a train was late the government got the blame. Corbyn bleating about renationalisation is nothing like as corrosive for our rulers as daily calls for the minister of transport to be ritually boiled alive.

I was thinking more about the crashes and loss of life that were the result of chronic under-investment and incompetence.

 

[toblerone3]

I'm sure there will be somebody along in a while to confirm that I am not making this shit up. There has got to be a better way with rail infrastructure. Without this I predict nationalising the TOCs will be a failure. Talking about the shortcomings of Railtrack is interesting but its not addressing the problem.

 

[Fez909]

I'm sure there will be somebody along in a while to confirm that I am not making this shit up. There has got to be a better way with rail infrastructure. Without this I predict nationalising the TOCs will be a failure. Talking about the shortcomings of Railtrack is interesting but its not addressing the problem.

Of course there will be a better way. Privatising it, isn't that way, however.

 

[newbie]

I was thinking more about the crashes and loss of life that were the result of chronic under-investment and incompetence.

I was being flippant. I'll take your word that those were the causes, although according to wiki human error seems to have been a significant factor. Maybe better technology existed but hadn't been implemented for reasons of cost or competence?

 

[existentialist]

I'm sure there will be somebody along in a while to confirm that I am not making this shit up. There has got to be a better way with rail infrastructure. Without this I predict nationalising the TOCs will be a failure. Talking about the shortcomings of Railtrack is interesting but its not addressing the problem.

Actually, the "better way" really was British Rail.

It all went pear-shaped every time the Government got involved - the Modernisation Plan in the late 50s was a cautious experiment into new forms of traction that was then - at the Government's behest - turned into a headlong dash to implement unproven designs, many of which were disastrous (though many others of which are still doing sterling service, half a century later); the Beeching Plan was only half-implemented by a Department of Transport that was determined to do no more than cut costs; then Thatcher, who was notoriously anti-railways, slashed funding and enforced all kinds of ridiculous compartmentalisation (anyone remember "sectorisation"? Another example of stupid internal markets, like the ones that have gone so well for the NHS). In between all that interference, the railways were actually pretty impressive. The only subsequent improvements have been the result of massive investment (from the private sector? Nah, get real - it's been publicly funded), and the occasional example, like West Coast, where privatisation failed and the railway ended up being operated by an (albeit arms-length) public sector organisation.

I don't suppose it'll just be a question of painting everything dark blue and putting semaphore signals up again, but I cannot see how the layers and layers of profit-taking, regulatory stuff, and vast teams of contract lawyers can be adding much to our public transport infrastructure.

 

[Fez909]

I was being flippant. I'll take your word that those were the causes, although according to wiki human error seems to have been a significant factor. Maybe better technology existed but hadn't been implemented for reasons of cost or competence?

It wasn't a lack of technology, it was not following procedures. They know about the broken railways before the Hatfield crash, for instance, but didn't fix it.

The problem was known about before the accident; a letter from the infrastructure company Railtrack in December 1999 warned that the existing Railtrack Line Specification was insufficient to guard against this type of fatigue. Replacement rails were made available but never delivered to the correct location for installation.

The Potters Bar crash was also caused by lack of maintenance.

 

[newbie]

It wasn't a lack of technology, it was not following procedures. They know about the broken railways before the Hatfield crash, for instance, but didn't fix it.

The Potters Bar crash was also caused by lack of maintenance.

Hatfield and Potters Bar were both post privatisation. So was Ladbroke Grove, which had many more fatalities.

 

[Fez909]

Hatfield and Potters Bar were both post privatisation. So was Ladbroke Grove, which had many more fatalities.

Yep, that's what I was trying to point out?

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. toblerone3 was arguing for privatisation of the rail network. I was trying to highlight how disasterous it was last time.

 

[tony.c]

he's such a prick

Chunky Mark (Mark McGowan) says he is an anarchist and doesn't vote.

 

[inva]

Chunky Mark (Mark McGowan) says he is an anarchist and doesn't vote.

having an interest in disabilty/welfare stuff I get subjected to his videos all the time.
one of them had that weird toad Max Keiser in it as I remember. can't stand him or his 'art'.

 

[tony.c]

I haven't seen any of his other video blogs, but I thought this one was good. A bit of a contradiction to the stereotype London cabbie who is usually regarded as a right wing bigot ranting about immigrants. A lot of cabbies were previously Royal Mail drivers, bus drivers, delivery drivers and couriers, with trade union grounding, and the ones I know are all left wing (and one anarchist!).

 

[inva]

I haven't seen any of his other video blogs, but I thought this one was good. A bit of a contradiction to the stereotype London cabbie who is usually regarded as a right wing bigot ranting about immigrants. A lot of cabbies were previously Royal Mail drivers, bus drivers and couriers, with trade union grounding, and the ones I know are all left wing (and one anarchist!).

due to trouble getting about I have to use cabs quite a bit, and tend to think the stereotype about them all being right wing comes mainly from people who think the same about virtually everyone.

 

[coley]

I don't think he has made any commitment to bring core utilities back into public ownership, only the railways.
The pledges he has made are here: Pledges

Ta for that, seems that some of the modest pledges he seems to have made,have been somewhat "exaggerated" bit disappointing though.