Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[YouSir]

But it's not a case of just getting some bouncers is it? It's a big operation, especially in the light of a recent murder and so on. You'd need someone to co-ordinate it and train people to organise and supervise. I don't know to what to degree the more nuanced elements of security for a large event of this nature are down to the police or part of the whole private sector deal means this sort of thing isn't really down to the police at all and you have to 'buy in' a service, instead of paying a policing bill.

Yeah but from top to bottom there are going to be members whose job this is and organising them into a rota isn't that hard. Or maybe it is, I'm just speculating. Either way the idea of conference being cancelled over this makes me highly cynical.

 

[Sprocket.]

I understand the problems of efficient security in today's world isn't just a case of standing large men shouting 'no trainers or white socks', but it is something that I think would be worth a few of us putting forward at branch or constituency meetings.

 

[tangerinedream]

Presumably such events are subject to permission and licensing at some level also. That permission must be subject to certain arrangements and given well in advance. You can't just gather thousands of people for a one off event without telling the local police or other authorities can you? That makes it even more unlikely that security could just be 'overlooked' - even stranger is the idea that it was an individual responsibility, it's not like asking someone to make a quiche for a jacob's join in the end of term staffroom lunch, it's a pretty fundamental element of the event and presumably, given as the party seems to have procedure for everything, there is some sort of policy and procedure and some sort of checking and corporate responsibility. The Labour Party is a big beast with a multi-million pound turnover. My work place is tiny in comparison but we have systems to ensure event arrangements are double + triple checked. The leader might change, but the procedure remains the same.

 

[YouSir]

I understand the problems of efficient security in today's world isn't just a case of standing large men shouting 'no trainers or white socks', but it is something that I think would be a few of us putting forward at branch or constituency meetings.

Won't be any before conference though.

 

[redsquirrel]

I really think people are seeing more than there is, that the PLP and allies are more organised than they are. As butchers mentioned earlier in the thread, the whole leadership challenge (Eagle vs Smith etc) has shown how disorganised they are rather than the opposite.

The conference thing (on which my money is on the NEC reversing the G4S decision) is just an outcome of the current disunity in the party rather than anything sinister.

 

[two sheds]

McDonnell claimed the party was exercising double standards in suspending Draper while allowing long-time party donor Lord Sainsbury to remain a member, despite having given more than £2m to the Liberal Democrats.

John McDonnell accuses Labour committee of 'rigged purge' of members

Still, clearly not as bad as saying something nice about the greens.

 

[tangerinedream]

It's a fucking joke is what it is. More effort and oversight seems to have gone into arranging 20 cups of tea for the last meeting at work than the national conference of one of the two main powers in 'the worlds greatest democracy'

 

[Diamond]

The story doing the rounds is that even if the NEC did a sudden u-turn and asked for G4S to take up the reins, G4S are not in a position to do so.

The whole thing smacks of incompetence but possibly also incompetence that was allowed to spiral for tactical reasons...

 

[Sprocket.]

Won't be any before conference though.

Of course this is a solution for the future, the coming conference does seem to be at risk.

Hopefully the problem will resolve itself by the security company's recognition of union members. By heck I really miss closed shops, collective bargaining and a show of hands. (Not Steve Knightley and his mate)

Edited due to rant!

 

[DaveCinzano]

Blooming eck!

Any other Gen Secs been barred since lunchtime?

Come on, we all know there's no Secs in the Champagne Room

 

[DaveCinzano]

Apparently John Dunn, the Orgreave miner who has been suspended from the Labour Party and therefore cannot vote in the leadership election, has been a Labour Party member for 45 years, which give or take a few days is the same amount of time Owen Smith has been alive for.

And how much wealth did that lazy coaldust-sniffing bastard ever create in those forty-five years, eh? Clearly voting rights need to be commensurate to a person's economic contribution - no more freeloaders!

 

[tangerinedream]

I was trying to explain to someone only yesterday who is kind of apolitical why they all hate Corbyn.

I thought the most credible explanation I could think of without dredging up arcane history and talking in fairly meaningless terms (to the person I was talking too) was that the party don't trust him, not because they are all completely opposed to his ideas but because they perceive him as keen to restructure the party to make them far more accountable to CLPs. This worries a lot of MPs who have seen an influx of members, seemingly hostile to the existing power dynamic.

I also explained that Corbyn might be able to create a much stronger position for himself at the next conference by setting in motion changes that enable some of the things many MPs figure will make their positions less secure. The 'coup' encouraged by the relatively small rump of MPs most ideologically opposed to him was embraced by MPs who aren't fundamentally anti his ideas because really, underneath it all, they see someone like Smith as a much safer bet for their careers.

Even MPs in very safe seats fear changes to party structure and they know Smith won't challenge their positions as he's not about empowering the local members. I think some of them probably weren't even completely conscious that that's why they were supporting the coup. It's easy to convince yourself you are doing something essentially selfish for moral reasons. It explains why some of them seem to have come up with the crappest justifications you can think of as they can't bring themselves to say (perhaps even in private or to the mirror) "because I don't want to be deselected"

Literally the next day 'conference in danger of cancellation um... Israel'

 

[DrRingDing]

Go to news.google.com and type in Corbyn and see what helpfully comes up as suggestions for extra searches.

Israel. And its been the same for months. Funny that.

 

[The Pale King]

Re No Security - time to call in the Hell's Angels...

 

[Puddy_Tat]

david owen agrees with jc

oh shit

 

[tangerinedream]

Owen's right in a way - Labour really should be able to broadly unite around some simple, no brain popular policies which the majority of the party fundamentally agree on.

the clear route forward for me would be for Corbyn to be able to say nice things about the achievements on education 97-2010 and say he wants to build on the past and take further what was started - credit the right with some achievement. We might want him to say 'You fucking pisscunt twatface bastards introduced tuition fees, slapped down targets all over the place, made Ofsted like a gestapo and encouraged a corporate culture of bullying in education and you couldn't even pay teaching assistants properly and hows Iraq looking now Tony you creepy fucking leathery cancer skeleton' but I would really rather he didn't say that and instead had at least one moment where everyone clapped and smiled and we could all feel optimistic and happy and part of one big family.

Kind of like it was your grans 90th birthday and you all just agreed not to mention certain stuff or bring up certain topics for the sake of gran.

 

[tangerinedream]

I think his pre conference facebook video should simply be him saying 'CAN WE JUST HAVE ONE NICE DAY OUT? IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?' and he should send John Mcdonnell to walk around and spot any dodgy characters doing 'off the record' briefings or snide pieces to camera with instructions just to shout 'THIS! THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!'

 

[Puddy_Tat]

not saying i disagree, but not sure that getting the dr death seal of approval is good for any politician...

 

[belboid]

The Granuiad links the boycott behind the cock-up to Jennie Formby of Unite on the NEC.

Is she pro or anti-Corbyn?

Gee, I wonder why a pro_smith newspaper would try and blame a (prominently) pro-Corbyn NEC member. Maybe to divert attention from the fact that it is in the control of the (pro-Smith) GS Iain McNicol

The story doing the rounds is that even if the NEC did a sudden u-turn and asked for G4S to take up the reins, G4S are not in a position to do so.

'Doing the rounds'?? You mean reported on every single news channel. Stop pretending to be 'in the know' you sad sack.

 

[Diamond]

Gee, I wonder why a pro_smith newspaper would try and blame a (prominently) pro-Corbyn NEC member. Maybe to divert attention from the fact that it is in the control of the (pro-Smith) GS Iain McNicol

'Doing the rounds'?? You mean reported on every single news channel. Stop pretending to be 'in the know' you sad sack.

"Pretending to be 'in the know,"...

"Sad sack"...

Truly pathetic attempts to contrive something that you can rail against.

 

[Diamond]

Anyways - just to be clear here...

It looks like Labour won't have a conference because no one bothered to sort out any security.

And none of that falls within the leadership's realm of responsibility.

 

[belboid]

Anyways - just to be clear here...

It looks like Labour won't have a conference because no one bothered to sort out any security.

And none of that falls within the leadership's realm of responsibility.

lol. Glad to see you not bothering to let facts get in your way.

 

[Diamond]

lol. Glad to see you not bothering to let facts get in your way.

Please expand

 

[DotCommunist]

Even training shouldn't be an issue I wouldn't have thought. You need a certificate right? Must be enough who have it. Or am I being overly optimistic?

SIA. You need it to ward the doors on a pub. Its all down to insurance.

 

[belboid]

Please expand

I think you'll find it's you making the claims, hence up to you to support your fallacious statements.

 

[coley]

Is anyone else remembering the electronic voting fraud discussion a bit more fondly now?

Not going to rise!

 

[Diamond]

I think you'll find it's you making the claims, hence up to you to support your fallacious statements.

I've posted an article above written by a guardian journalist.

e2a - surely it falls to you to identify the errors that render it fallacious...?

 

[belboid]

I've posted an article above written by a guardian journalist.

e2a - surely it falls to you to identify the errors that render it fallacious...?

the link you gave doesn't mention Jennie Formby, it mentions Iain McNicol, for one

 

[Diamond]

the link you gave doesn't mention Jennie Formby, it mentions Iain McNicol, for one

Odd - they've edited the Formby bit out in that version. You can find the old copy on google news.

 

[Sprocket.]

Whether the Labour conference goes ahead or not I think the argument here is that we once again have a situation that highlights how the Labour Party after all the years in power did nothing to repeal the anti trade union laws. These laws repress workers, workers labour expect to vote for them. Members of unions that Labour expect donations off. The PLP is as anti trade union as the tories and once again evidence that those at the bottom and the oppressed never mattered to Labour since the mid seventies.
This situation is about trade union members receiving recognition.
Ultimately the problem is one allowed to continue under successive Labour governments. So if the conference is cancelled, so be it!