Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[YouSir]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Ann Black, who's on the pro-Corbyn, Left slate for the NEC supported the suspension of the Brighton branch and upheld the £25 fee. Which apparently was lost by 2 votes. Seen a bit of anger about it but the consensus seems go be to vote for her now and remember what she did for later. Too late for a lot of people anyway, I've already voted on the NEC and there's no one else to be a ready replacement. Better her than Akehurst anyway. Still, the borders aren't always crystal clear.

 

[ska invita]

Spot on, but hopefully what will emerge from the ruins is a Labour Party that is 'fit for purpose' one that will seek to represent the WC and the general public, as opposed to the trough snuffling elitist shytehawks masquerading as 'the labour party'

If that happens losing the next election (far from inevitable) would be well worth it.

We all know the limitations of parliamentary party politics, but nonetheless a reshuffling of the pack that leaves the main parties with distinct identities and positions has to be a step forward.

There are bigger forces going on in the western world, political tectonic plates are shifting, and it's long overdue in small c conservative uk politics.

I just can't see the status quo of the last twenty years surviving... The Plp are on the wrong side of history i reckon

 

[coley]

No idea, the statistics we've been discussing don't go into that level of detail. Of course using any broad concept like 'working class' is problematic. Just like using 'northern working class'. Do you mean Yorkshire or Lancashire? etc etc

The North starts at Tyne /Tees,
Don't let those Northern midlanders confuse you, you sound a bit confused already

 

[YouSir]

The North starts at Tyne /Tees,
Don't let those Northern midlanders confuse you, you sound a bit confused already

Believe you'll find the North starts on the wrong side of the Thames and goes all the way to Scotland.

 

[coley]

Christ, are we really doing this again? The polls are pretty clear, there is widespread anti-immigration sentiment in the working class. We shouldn't still be debating that ffs - we should be talking about why that's happened, and what the response should be (clue: 'controls on immigration' carved into a tombstone isn't it)

No, there is widespread concern about 'uncontrolled' immigration amongst some in the WC, translated into racist WC racism by the right wing establishment, unfortunately this is being used as a big stick amongst the 'sore losers'
Controlled immigration and helping refugees isn't a problem here in the 'frozen North' can't comment on other parts of the UK.

 

[coley]

Yeah, we can't generalise at all about anything. Ever.

Not on U75, ever
Just trying to save you a bit of time and effort,yiknaaws

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Believe you'll find the North starts on the wrong side of the Thames and goes all the way to Scotland.

 

[coley]

part 3

Late, but will read it the morn, sounds very interesting, ta

 

[coley]

Or possibly he's a bit thick, out of his depth, with only a few old friends around him? Just putting that out there, like.

Possibly, but by fuck he resonates,what does that tell you!

 

[coley]

If that happens losing the next election (far from inevitable) would be well worth it.

We all know the limitations of parliamentary party politics, but nonetheless a reshuffling of the pack that leaves the main parties with distinct identities and positions has to be a step forward.

There are bigger forces going on in the western world, political tectonic plates are shifting, and it's long overdue in small c conservative uk politics.

I just can't see the status quo of the last twenty years surviving... The Plp are on the wrong side of history i reckon

The Chinese curse is coming home 'big time'
Trump FFS, Owen, even bigger FFS

 

[coley]

Believe you'll find the North starts on the wrong side of the Thames and goes all the way to Scotland.

The stated position of the Tories and the PLP

 

[Puddy_Tat]

The stated position of the Tories and the PLP

dunno - most of them don't recognise the existence of south london...

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Possibly, but by fuck he resonates,what does that tell you!

Lazy, smug middle-class metropolitan self-righteousness has never resonated with me. You?

 

[oryx]

Or possibly he's a bit thick, out of his depth, with only a few old friends around him? Just putting that out there, like.

Thought I'd call you out on this.

Why do you think he's 'thick'? What's your evidence of him being 'thick'?

He is someone who while a seasoned parliamentarian has never previously held a cabinet post and never expected to become leader of the party. He is holding his own admirably against a sea of media opposition and against manipulative forces in his own party who have become so far from what Labour was set up to be that they have disappeared up their own neo-liberal arses.

Those who have stayed with him I do not see as exclusively 'a few old friends' - McDonnell and Abbott may be that but there are other strong allies like Lewis, Burgon and Thornberry who do not fit that description.

Doing a new type of politics is never going to be easy and I'm absolutely behind Corbyn for moving away from the 'Oxbridge Union' style of debate within Parliament, for raising real issues on behalf of real people, for getting young and previously disinterested/disillusioned people into what's meant to be a party for the 99%, and for being resolute in the face of very aggressive PLP and media opposition for doing this.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Thought I'd call you out on this.

Why do you think he's 'thick'? What's your evidence of him being 'thick'?

It's probably unfair to bring up his privileged education and despite that a complete lack of qualifications but, eh, who said politics was fair? How's this:

 

[oryx]

It's probably unfair to bring up his privileged education and despite that a complete lack of qualifications but, eh, who said politics was fair? How's this:

Er.... some Twitter post from 2010 about alternative medicine doesn't really prove he's 'thick'...

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Er.... some Twitter post from 2010 about alternative medicine doesn't really prove he's 'thick'...

Well, we'll have to disagree there. "they both come from organic matter...". That's probably true, but eh, bit thick?

I wonder what he thinks organic matter is?

 

[agricola]

It's probably unfair to bring up his privileged education and despite that a complete lack of qualifications but, eh, who said politics was fair? How's this:

It is true, there is a world of difference between his simplistic "I believe" and the much more refined and erudite "I believe" that Blair picked up at Fettes and Oxford.

 

[Whagwan]

I'm as big an anti- homoeopathist as you could be but I'm still always shocked at how seemingly intelligent and aware people confuse herbalism with homoeopathy...

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

It is true, there is a world of difference between his simplistic "I believe" and the much more refined and erudite "I believe" that Blair picked up at Fettes and Oxford.

Whataboutery is a *terrible* look on anyone.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Looks like they're enforcing a rule that only delegates who have been a member for 12 months are allowed to go to conference.

 

[kabbes]

There is no universal "thick", just as there is no universal "clever" (apart from me, obvs). People can be incredibly clued up in some ways and completely clueless in others. On his own ground -- social policy -- Corbyn speaks with insight and erudition. That'll do me just fine.

 

[cantsin]

It's probably unfair to bring up his privileged education and despite that a complete lack of qualifications but, eh, who said politics was fair? How's this:

Conclusive stuff that

 

[Authentic]

I'm as big an anti- homoeopathist as you could be but I'm still always shocked at how seemingly intelligent and aware people confuse herbalism with homoeopathy...

Authentic an bonfide an erbal!

 

[two sheds]

Or possibly he's a bit thick, out of his depth, with only a few old friends around him? Just putting that out there, like.

Well it's policies that really count unless you're one of the lazy, smug middle-class metropolitan self-righteous. Bernie Gunther on his thread gave this list of Corbyn's policies, which would you say back you up about him being thick?

Get rid of PFI (buy NHS trust out of debt?)
Higher taxation in the upper bands
£10 minimum wage
Invest in HMRC to enable it to collect tax from corporations / wealthy more effectively
Land value tax
People's Quantitative Easing
Repeal Trade Union bill
More effective employment laws generally (might be an answer to some free movement of labour issues exploited by populist right)
100% publically run/funded NHS
Renationalising utilities
Return to free education
Re-industrialisation of the North (how?)

Getting rid of PFI? 100% publically run/funded NHS perhaps? Return to free education? Peoples' Quantitative Easing?

 

[MAD-T-REX]

100% publically run/funded NHS perhaps?

Extending this to not financially supporting private drugs research, just to try and put Owen Smith in an awkward position, is as thick as pig shit.

 

[two sheds]

not seen that - what did he say?

 

[MAD-T-REX]

More detail later today, apparently. Corbyn seems unaware that medical research is hideously expensive and that the NHS has enormous buying power when dealing with these companies.

 

[quimcunx]

More detail later today, apparently. Corbyn seems unaware that medical research is hideously expensive and that the NHS has enormous buying power when dealing with these companies.

How does it get paid for now?

 

[maomao]

How does it get paid for now?

It gets paid for by whatever's left after they've divied up the profits from boner pills and dodgy antidepressants. I'm no expert but medical research seems like one of the great failures of the free market.