Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Wilf]

the collective name for this united minority would be a rump. a rump of arses.

Though after Aaargh's withdrawal they are a single united buttock. I never thought this contest would throw up a Candide reference.

 

[Pickman's model]

Though after Aaargh's withdrawal they are a single united buttock. I never thought this contest would throw up a Candide reference.

everything is for the best in the best of all possible worlds

pity voltaire was such an anti-semite.

 

[two sheds]

Jeremy Corbyn just won the right to fight those that want to keep him off leadership ballot

Haha McNichol was going to be the defendant, great defence I'm sure he'd have put up. "Plaintiff wishes to remove Corbyn's name from ballot paper". Defendant: "Ok go on then".

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Has anyone got any evidence that Smith proposed NHS privatisation during his time lobbying for Pfizer?

 

[Wilf]

The differences are as much to do with the historical traditions in the party as ideological.

Progress are the New Labour, neoliberal, "Blairites", people like Tristam Hunt, Kendall, Woodcock, Twigg etc.
The Blue Labour/Labour Right tendency is the most socially conservative grouping, in principle opposed to neoliberal economics but in practice these days their economic policies aren't a million miles from Progress.
The "soft-left" tendency are socially liberal but have a few remnants of social democratic beliefs still remaining in their political ideology, for example Ed Miliband keeping open some possible state involvement in railway services as opposed to Ball's desire for complete private ownership. Eagle, Owen Smith, Burnham are also in this section.

And here's an article (first posted by killer b) giving a quick summary of the different tendencies and looking at how they behaved in the last years leadership election

I'll have a look at that article in a minute (broadband's fucked, it's loading it line by line), but Corbyn's own position in that schema is interesting. Throughout, particularly after going to one of his mass meetings before the last leadership election, I've always referred to him as a social democrat pure and simple. That's probably a bit simplistic, but all of his solutions were around a defence of the NHS/welfare state, higher public spending and nationalisation (along with a defence of migrants that was perhaps a left position in the party as opposed to a social democratic one). He still holds onto a Labourist position, thinking the unions represent the working class and so are the party's prime link with the working class - though like the rest of the left he has moved beyond that, also seeing the party having a representative role around gender, ethnicity, disability and the like. He's perhaps a 'left social democrat' - maybe a 'confident' social democrat, even a naïve social democrat in this era of globalisation. Many of his supporters perhaps have a more definite view about extra-parliamentary action. However he also indicates how far the party has shifted for his brand of social democracy now to be the 'left position' in the party.

 

[killer b]

Has anyone got any evidence that Smith proposed NHS privatisation during his time lobbying for Pfizer?

I don't think he did. Crick has this from his 2005 tilt at a seat:

 

[agricola]

Has anyone got any evidence that Smith proposed NHS privatisation during his time lobbying for Pfizer?

It depends what you mean by NHS privatization. If you mean its removal and replacement by a US-style insurance system, then he probably didn't. If you mean that he advocated getting Pfizer into the NHS market so that it could get guaranteed money off the state in return for providing services, then I would imagine there will be bucket-loads of evidence that he did - otherwise what would be the point of employing an ex-Labour SPAD?

 

[Wilf]

The other obvious point about Corbyn is that he managed to remain in the party - supporting the party - amid the horrors of Blair's neo-liberalism and mass murders.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't think he did. Crick has this from his 2005 tilt at a seat:

 

[killer b]

I was just reading this telegraph article on the very same topic.

No welcome in these valleys for Labour

Interviewer: And Mr Blair, is he a Socialist?

Owen Smith: Yes

 

[Pickman's model]

not just any auld lobbyist but pfizer's head of government affairs

 

[Doctor Carrot]

After having just watched PMQs the PLP really do make me sick. The new PM has already continued with her party's smug, gloating, patronising and arrogant tone. Corbyn engaged with none of it, reminded her that people have sent them all there to represent them, brought up the issue of zero hours, shite pay, shite housing and food banks. What did the PLP do? Nothing, no cheering, no support they just sat there and let May answer again in the same tone. Fuck the Labour Party. I hope it fucking drowns if Corbyn loses and all his supporters can abandon it and build a movement outside of it.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

not just any auld lobbyist but pfizer's head of government affairs

View attachment 89746

This article - This reform of NHS drug funding is not a sweet deal for big pharma - and the comments make interesting reading re. Pfizer and it interests...I'm not sure what sort of 'radical' would be their preferred 'head of government affairs'?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[J Ed]

I found these two articles (the second is a response to the first) worth reading - plenty to disagree with in both, but also lots to chew on:

The Terrifying Hubris of Corbynism
The Matter of Corbynism

Also this reply to the original article is worth a read I think

Thanks, in a way, for writing this.

 

[squirrelp]

That was from his first disastrous attempt to become an MP in a by-election. Since he was still working for Pfizer at the time of the campaign it was just a standard canned response to questions about that dynamic. Thats not to say I trust him with NHS decisions at all or think his Pfizer history is irrelevant, but that particular quote is hardly a useful part of a focussed insider expose.

Fair point elbows.

Has anyone got any evidence that Smith proposed NHS privatisation during his time lobbying for Pfizer?

On the pfizer / NHS issue we have this from Craig Murray who asserts that Smith will indeed plan to privatise the NHS

As chief lobbyist for Pfizer, Smith actively pushed for privatisation of NHS services. This is not something Pfizer did very openly, and you have to search the evidence carefully. Footnotes often tell you what is really happening, as in this press release in which Owen Smith says of a Pfizer funded “focus group” study:

We believe that choice is a good thing and that patients and healthcare professionals should be at the heart of developing the agenda.

You have to look at the footnotes to see what kind of choice Owen Smith is actually talking about. Note to Editors 3 includes

“The focus groups also explored areas of choice that do not yet exist in the UK – most specifically the use of direct payments and the ability to choose to go directly to a specialist without first having to see the GP.”

Well, at least it is clear – direct payments from the public to doctors replacing current NHS services. Smith was promoting straight privatisation. As Head of Policy and Government Relations for Pfizer, Owen Smith was also directly involved in Pfizer’s funding of Blairite right wing entryist group Progress. Pfizer gave Progress £53,000. Progress has actively pursued the agenda of PFI and privatisation of NHS services.

The Entirely Fake Owen Smith - Craig Murray

 

[killer b]

Also this reply to the original article is worth a read I think

Thanks, in a way, for writing this.

Yes, this is good.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

More on the radical milieu from which Owen Smith emerged: Corporate Watch : Newsletter 27 : 3 - PFTHINK TANK PFONIES | Corporate Watch

If your looking for picket line heroics or day to battles in the workplace and the community you will come away disappointed.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Wilf]

I'm not sure which are worse, the Blairites who worked for companies like Pfizer before becoming an mp, or those who waited till after, leaving a decent interval of 30 seconds before sprinting towards the open arms of corporate filth.

 

[inva]

More on the radical milieu from which Owen Jones emerged: Corporate Watch : Newsletter 27 : 3 - PFTHINK TANK PFONIES | Corporate Watch

If your looking for picket line heroics or day to battles in the workplace and the community you will come away disappointed.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

owen smith possibly?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

owen smith possibly?

Yep. And I bet it's not the last time I do it either.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[inva]

Yep. And I bet it's not the last time I do it either.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

he's so bland you can't even remember his name

 

[YouSir]

he's so bland you can't even remember his name

Was just writing an article about him, had to repeatedly Google his name and even now I get the feeling I've written Owen Jones by mistake.

 

[Lurdan]

Older I get the harder it is to tell one capitalist running dog from another

(It's even worse outside urban).

 

[Brixton Hatter]

55,000 have signed up so far despite the £25, apparently. The party coffers will certainly benefit, even if no one else does.

A cool £1,375,000 in the party's bank account. Nice work.

Perhaps if they challenge corbyn annually the party will be rich and have millions of members

 

[butchersapron]

A cool £1,375,000 in the party's bank account. Nice work.

Perhaps if they challenge corbyn annually the party will be rich and have millions of members

Interesting - they were in massive debt until earlier this year, which hampered a lot of the ground based stuff that decent CLPs could get up to. Corbyn was personally liable for that debt i believe (happy to be be corrected). When he wins he now has the financial space to fund that sort of local/extra-parliamentary stuff he says he is going to based his leadership on. So thank you PLP.

 

[Wilf]

A cool £1,375,000 in the party's bank account. Nice work.

Perhaps if they challenge corbyn annually the party will be rich and have millions of members

It would be interesting to see a transcript of the NEC meeting where they debated the £25 thing, whether this was part of the smokescreen they emitted for the shift from 3 quid to 25.

 

[gosub]

A cool £1,375,000 in the party's bank account. Nice work.

Perhaps if they challenge corbyn annually the party will be rich and have millions of members

better off buying shares in B&Q: Wallpapering tables £7, bricks 50p

 

[Sprocket.]

A cool £1,375,000 in the party's bank account. Nice work.

Perhaps if they challenge corbyn annually the party will be rich and have millions of members

They may need the influx of funds ready for when the trade unions dump them. As if that would ever happen!

 

[chilango]

My wife arrived home from the pub last night so pissed of with Tory voters going on about how "unelectable" Corbyn is that she was talking about signing up as a £25er and trying to persuade me to too

Cold light of morning dissuaded her but still...a snapshot of how this playing out in unexpected places/ways.

 

[billy_bob]

A cool £1,375,000 in the party's bank account. Nice work.

Perhaps if they challenge corbyn annually the party will be rich and have millions of members

Electorate's what? 40 million? If they got 75,000 per challenge it would take just over 50 challenges/years for everyone to be a member.

I'm not trying to say he's unelectable, but I'm not sure even JC's got that in him.