Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[scifisam]

Thinking about it Smith's decision to promise a second referendum is very smart in a way, Corbyn isn't going to offer it and there are undoubtedly a good number of liberals who joined the party to support Corbyn who are into this whole 'we are the 48%' nonsense. It has potential to peel away a good amount of JC's support even if its implementation would be disastrous.

Who would be stupid enough to fall for that? He's not prime minister - he can't hold a second referendum. It'd be like me promising to hold a second referendum.

 

[Cakes]

Sorry didn't see this had already been posted. Thread moving faster than me!

One of my local MPs (Thangham Debbonair) proper getting her rant on today. Interesting to read specific accusations, instead of generalisations about bad leadership. I'm not sold, but what she's saying about the Policy Forum does feed a suspicion I have about his office not functioning effectively.

 

[DaveCinzano]

It'd be like me promising to hold a second referendum.

So are you promising to hold a second referendum, and if not, why not?

 

[scifisam]

So are you promising to hold a second referendum, and if not, why not?

The people's decision is final! Even if the people are stupid.

 

[squirrelp]

One of my local MPs (Thangham Debbonair) proper getting her rant on today. Interesting to read specific accusations, instead of generalisations about bad leadership. I'm not sold, but what she's saying about the Policy Forum does feed a suspicion I have about his office not functioning effectively.

This is the first attack on JC that feels a fair shot to me.

However for me this is all secondary to the question of direction, policies, integrity. The stuff you cannot buy. I don't want to be sold out, no matter how efficiently or professionally.

I expect that Corbyn's office will improve in functionality, especially if he doesn't have to deal with the craziness of constant mutiny.

 

[Sirena]

I expect that Corbyn's office will improve in functionality, especially if he doesn't have to deal with the craziness of constant mutiny.

I see the image of a new teacher whose class has secretly conspired to make his life a non-co-operative misery.

 

[J Ed]

I see the image of a new teacher whose class has secretly conspired to make his life a non-co-operative misery.

I hadn't thought of it that way but it's a good analogy

 

[agricola]

This is the first attack on JC that feels a fair shot to me.

However for me this is all secondary to the question of direction, policies, integrity. The stuff you cannot buy. I don't want to be sold out, no matter how efficiently or professionally.

I expect that Corbyn's office will improve in functionality, especially if he doesn't have to deal with the craziness of constant mutiny.

Some of it is, but quite a lot of it repeats criticisms that were leveled at Blair and Brown as well (small cliques running things, inability to give decisions / reasons for those decisions quickly, appointing and sacking people mistakenly). He also appears to have missed (and is missing) a trick in terms of policy by keeping up the modern convention of the centre generating / approving a lot of policies; what he should have done is returned to the older style whereby the Shadow Cabinet agreed a general framework and then let shadow ministers come up with their own ideas.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

One of my local MPs (Thangham Debbonair) proper getting her rant on today. Interesting to read specific accusations, instead of generalisations about bad leadership. I'm not sold, but what she's saying about the Policy Forum does feed a suspicion I have about his office not functioning effectively.

Meh I can't buy it. She's my MP and I've learnt more about her through this whole debacle than at any other time. I can't buy it because she's quick to use her cancer treatment for various reasons. I realise that sounds fucking awful to say it but there ya go. I'll qualify this statement by saying that while I don't think Corbyn's the most decisive of politicians I just don't buy the fact he, or at least someone in his office, were so clueless about their MPs that they appointed her as a shadow secretary completely unaware she was in the middle of cancer treatment. I'll further qualify it by saying that on the one hand she'll mention her cancer treatment but on the other hand she is quite happy to endorse leadership candidates who said, this morning on national TV no less, that they're happy to support continuing austerity, a policy that has hounded and hassled cancer patients all over the land to despair and early graves so forgive me if I'm not quite as sympathetic to her and her rantings. I hope she gets deselected as her politics are about as exciting as an empty crisp packet scraping the concrete in a light and insignificant breeze.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

#hackinglabour is trending on tweeter

seems to be based on this - suggesting that the progress lot are abusing party membership data

 

[two sheds]

NEC elections this week. JC's lot are organised enough to send you a slate if you have liked him on facebook.. Interesting times.

I've been told on this very forum that the NEC elections are at the same time as the leadership elections

 

[Casually Red]

This is the first attack on JC that feels a fair shot to me.

However for me this is all secondary to the question of direction, policies, integrity. The stuff you cannot buy. I don't want to be sold out, no matter how efficiently or professionally.

I expect that Corbyn's office will improve in functionality, especially if he doesn't have to deal with the craziness of constant mutiny.

Given what's been going on sabotage can't be ruled out either .

 

[Cakes]

Meh I can't buy it. She's my MP and I've learnt more about her through this who debacle than anything other time. I can't buy it because she's quick to use her cancer treatment for various reasons. I realise that sounds fucking awful to say it but there ya go. I'll qualify this statement by saying that while I don't think Corbyn's the most decisive of politicians I just don't buy the fact he, or at least someone in his office, were so clueless about their MPs that they appointed her as a shadow secretary completely unaware she was in the middle of cancer treatment. I'll further qualify it by saying that on the one hand she'll mention her cancer treatment but on the other hand she is quite happy to endorse leadership candidates who said, this morning on national TV no less, that they're happy to support continuing austerity, a policy that has hounded and hassled cancer patients all over the land to despair and early graves so forgive me if I'm not quite as sympathetic to her and her rantings. I hope she gets deselected as her politics are about as exciting as an empty crisp packet scraping the concrete in a light and insignificant breeze.

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth but I'm going to say it seems like at times her cancer treatment has been used to exploit sympathy for her position. Right back when she was appointed her shadow ministerial position the pitch was not only was she awesome for managing her treatment at the same time as serving (no doubt, that was unbelievably strong of her), but how progressive Corbyn was for not overlooking her suitability just because she was on longterm sick. Then the day before she resigned from that position and added her name to the no confidence vote, she announces that she is "going twitter dark" because of insensitive comments (almost immediately deleted) regarding her treatment. I feel shit for being suspicious, but I am.

 

[Casually Red]

Nick Cohen really going for it here . Corbyn supporters - stench of death, killers, rape threats, misogyny, homophobia, anti semitism , hovering above the labour party like yellow smoke in a Munich beer hall.

Labour has the stench of death – meet the killers | Nick Cohen

There you go. Corbyns supporters are basically violent fascists .

This entire campaign of demonisation is solely to do with delegitimising support for Corbyn . It's not about democracy. A pro corbyn choice has no legitimacy according to these bastards . Supporting Corbyh itself is a form of bullying and intimidation . And akin to fascism .

 

[emanymton]

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth but I'm going to say it seems like at times her cancer treatment has been used to exploit sympathy for her position. Right back when she was appointed her shadow ministerial position the pitch was not only was she awesome for managing her treatment at the same time as serving (no doubt, that was unbelievably strong of her), but how progressive Corbyn was for not overlooking her suitability just because she was on longterm sick. Then the day before she resigned from that position and added her name to the no confidence vote, she announces that she is "going twitter dark" because of insensitive comments (almost immediately deleted) regarding her treatment. I feel shit for being suspicious, but I am.

She still has a fucking awesome name though.

 

[J Ed]

Meh I can't buy it. She's my MP and I've learnt more about her through this whole debacle than at any other time. I can't buy it because she's quick to use her cancer treatment for various reasons. I realise that sounds fucking awful to say it but there ya go. I'll qualify this statement by saying that while I don't think Corbyn's the most decisive of politicians I just don't buy the fact he, or at least someone in his office, were so clueless about their MPs that they appointed her as a shadow secretary completely unaware she was in the middle of cancer treatment. I'll further qualify it by saying that on the one hand she'll mention her cancer treatment but on the other hand she is quite happy to endorse leadership candidates who said, this morning on national TV no less, that they're happy to support continuing austerity, a policy that has hounded and hassled cancer patients all over the land to despair and early graves so forgive me if I'm not quite as sympathetic to her and her rantings. I hope she gets deselected as her politics are about as exciting as an empty crisp packet scraping the concrete in a light and insignificant breeze.

If you look at her twitter timeline a lot of it really is trying to invoke sympathy in this way to win points in petty disputes. She claimed that a constituent telling her to 'get in the sea' was a death threat, extending that pattern of behaviour to Jeremy Corbyn wouldn't be so much an escalation of that behaviour as a continuation.

 

[William of Walworth]

Nick Cohen really going for it here . Corbyn supporters - stench of death, killers, rape threats, misogyny, homophobia, anti semitism , hovering above the labour party like yellow smoke in a Munich beer hall.

Labour has the stench of death – meet the killers | Nick Cohen

There you go. Corbyns supporters are basically violent fascists .

This entire campaign of demonisation is solely to do with delegitimising support for Corbyn . It's not about democracy. A pro corbyn choice has no legitimacy according to these bastards . Supporting Corbyh itself is a form of bullying and intimidation . And akin to fascism .

I deliberately avoided reading that article in the Observer yesterday because I suspected (from the headline ) that he was going to go thoroughly OTT with his rant.

But in general I'm well pissed off with all this violence and threats stuff as media orthodoxy, because :

1. Rarely if ever mentioned, Corbyn himself having received a death threat (and Macdonell too I think)
2. The brick through Angela Eagle's office story having been unquestioningly accepted as fact all over the media ... when it simply didn't happen
(Thanks to Bernie Gunther for posting that link in the 'invented/concocted abuse' thread)
3. Corbyn's emphatic condemnation of any threats -- rarely if ever mentioned.
4. Most importantly, the constant implication that all Corbyn's supporters indulge in/condone threatening behaviour, when the actual number involved is almost certainly miniscule.

None of the above is at all surprising, but it's still absolutely infuriating.

(Edited to add the link)

 

[kabbes]

Apologies if I missed it, but I've not yet seen this story linked to on this thread

Academic study reveals that three-quarters of media articles fail to accurately report Corbyn's views

The Independent carried this story and immediately continued to misrepresent him. The Guardian, AFAIK, didn't even carry the story at all.

 

[Pickman's model]

Apologies if I missed it, but I've not yet seen this story linked to on this thread

Academic study reveals that three-quarters of media articles fail to accurately report Corbyn's views

The Independent carried this story and immediately continued to misrepresent him. The Guardian, AFAIK, didn't even carry the story at all.

Do you have a link to continued misrepresentation?

 

[billy_bob]

If you sign the 'Respect Jeremy Corbyn's right to automatically be on the leadership ballot' petition on change.org, it asks you if you'd like to donate £3, £10, £25 or £50. It would be so much better if it was just £3 or £25.

 

[killer b]

The latest line of attack - he's incompetent - looks like it could cause some damage to me.

Greenwood's speech that everyone is sharing around in a not at all co-ordinated way this afternoon is very persuasive... Lilian's speech to Nottingham South Labour Party members

 

[Pickman's model]

Do you have a link to continued misrepresentation?

kabbes

 

[nuffsaid]

The latest line of attack - he's incompetent - looks like it could cause some damage to me.

Greenwood's speech that everyone is sharing around in a not at all co-ordinated way this afternoon is very persuasive... Lilian's speech to Nottingham South Labour Party members

That is indeed pretty damning.

 

[killer b]

All the more so because any seasoned Corbyn watcher knows it's largely true.

I suppose like democracy being the worst system of government apart from all the other systems, Corbyn is the worst possible leader for the Labour party, apart from all the other possible leaders...

 

[William of Walworth]

The latest line of attack - he's incompetent - looks like it could cause some damage to me.

Greenwood's speech that everyone is sharing around in a not at all co-ordinated way this afternoon is very persuasive... Lilian's speech to Nottingham South Labour Party members

I agree, this is damaging and probably mostly true. She doesn't seem like any kind of determined anti-Corbyn plotter either.

I'll always defend Corbyn against plotters, splitters, Blairites etc, and all that shit I've just expressed pissoffedness about in post 6043 is totally out of order.

But at the same time it's hard not to have some criticisms that are just about his/his team's competence.

Yes I know almost all the media are out to get him but some mistakes seem unnecessary, naive even.

 

[William of Walworth]

All the more so because any seasoned Corbyn watcher knows it's largely true.

I suppose like democracy being the worst system of government apart from all the other systems, Corbyn is the worst possible leader for the Labour party, apart from all the other possible leaders...

That's right, the others might be more 'competent', but in every other way they'd be far worse.

 

[butchersapron]

I note she didn't resign at that point - and was indeed kept on. She waited 6 months to do it until the point when it might do the most damage. Corbyn surely cannot base reshuffles around a date one shadow cabinet members feels is very important or how hard their team has worked on what she feels is important. Maybe she should have brought her concerns forward and maybe they could have been addressed. Maybe they were and she's decided to keep tactically quiet about that - i don't know. I do know i don't trust the oxbrdridge MP though - esp as she's the 2nd one out the traps with this new angle.

 

[Idris2002]

AAAAAND I was beaten to it, by several other posters.

I agree it could play well with some - the line that he's not a team leader or team player - but it might have been better if they had run with that one.

And it's hard to be a team leader or a team player, if you spent your life arguing for a different game than the one Lillian G. wants to play.

 

[butchersapron]

A guy who is a life-long Liberal - an actual member of the Northern Irish sister party of the Lib Dems, the Alliance - posted this on facebook:

Lilian's speech to Nottingham South Labour Party members

Claims she's not a plotter, did not time her resignation with anyone, and that she simply feels that El Corbo just isn't leadership material. What do you lot reckon?

We reckon you should read the thread's recent posts.

 

[Idris2002]

We reckon you should read the thread's recent posts.

You win this round, apron - but we shall meet again.