Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Serge Forward]

Do you think the voting public know who Mason is?

But Williamson, and Webbe - oh the mine is deep there...

I can't see Webbe getting anywhere. She has a gofundme page to finance her campaign. It's not been running long but so far, there's not many pledges in. She'd also have the negative influence of the Vaz dynasty to contend with, which has been a thorn in her side since long before she was booted from Labour. And even though the "acid attack threat" was shown in court to be unfounded, the message hasn't really got across, certainly not in the media. The harassment stuff, however, is another issue and was partially upheld by the courts. Then there's the (also ex-Labour) One Leicester Party to add to the mix. So she's got no fucking chance.

 

[skyscraper101]

I can't see Corbyn going anywhere either. It'll be like Ken Livingstone vs Frank Dobson all over again.

 

[Wilf]

If Corbyn stands, I'd prefer that he wins, in that he would be standing against a candidate representing something awful (
starmer's Labour, the shabby treatment of Corbyn, Abbot and several others, the weaponisation of anti-semitism and plenty of other things). Same time, I struggle to see much that is positive in a Corbyn victory. His period in power was one of inept strategy, no sense that he might link the Labour Party to communities in struggle or anything other than reheated social democracy. His victory would just be as a minor thorn in starmer's side and, for that matter, a failure to even think about breaking with Parliamentary politics.

Edit: I thought Tony Benn was, generally, a fucking idiot. However, I did like his line about leaving Parliament to start doing politics (even if, from what I remember, it didn't amount to much). To be honest, I'd prefer it if Corby could come out with something similar.

 

[two sheds]

Something like a ... Peace and Justice Project?

 

[The39thStep]

Not trusting your own local party to short-list their own candidates is such wonderful prefigurative politics:

Adults only

 

[Pickman's model]

If Corbyn stands, I'd prefer that he wins, in that he would be standing against a candidate representing something awful (
starmer's Labour, the shabby treatment of Corbyn, Abbot and several others, the weaponisation of anti-semitism and plenty of other things). Same time, I struggle to see much that is positive in a Corbyn victory. His period in power was one of inept strategy, no sense that he might link the Labour Party to communities in struggle or anything other than reheated social democracy. His victory would just be as a minor thorn in starmer's side and, for that matter, a failure to even think about breaking with Parliamentary politics.

Edit: I thought Tony Benn was, generally, a fucking idiot. However, I did like his line about leaving Parliament to start doing politics (even if, from what I remember, it didn't amount to much). To be honest, I'd prefer it if Corby could come out with something similar.

the positive thing in a corbyn victory is one in the eye for shammer

 

[The39thStep]

whereas Starmer aligning himself with creeps like Mason would be good solid politics

I doubt if Mason would get a look in despite his appeal to posters on here who don't live in Islington and who like his mind maps of alleged perpetrators of Stalinist disinformation, his war economy proposals, a 'Peoples Nato' and his racy novels.

 

[brogdale]

Adults only

It really is that patronising, isn't it?

 

[Karl Masks]

If Corbyn stands, I'd prefer that he wins, in that he would be standing against a candidate representing something awful (
starmer's Labour, the shabby treatment of Corbyn, Abbot and several others, the weaponisation of anti-semitism and plenty of other things). Same time, I struggle to see much that is positive in a Corbyn victory. His period in power was one of inept strategy, no sense that he might link the Labour Party to communities in struggle or anything other than reheated social democracy. His victory would just be as a minor thorn in starmer's side and, for that matter, a failure to even think about breaking with Parliamentary politics.

Edit: I thought Tony Benn was, generally, a fucking idiot. However, I did like his line about leaving Parliament to start doing politics (even if, from what I remember, it didn't amount to much). To be honest, I'd prefer it if Corby could come out with something similar.

Why was Tony Benn an idiot?

 

[Dogsauce]

Still think Corbyn should run as an independent in Starmer’s seat. Demand he debates him etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

Why was Tony Benn an idiot?

Why wasn't he?

 

[Wilf]

Why was Tony Benn an idiot?

Would you like me to list the reasons by relevance or alphabetically?

 

[Karl Masks]

Would you like me to list the reasons by relevance or alphabetically?

would it matter?

 

[hitmouse]

Corbyn aligning himself, however distantly, with creeps like Williamson and Webbe is that extra birthday card that arrives a week late, but has £20 in it. Delicious...

Do you think the voting public know who Mason is?

But Williamson, and Webbe - oh the mine is deep there...

I mean, what's the actual connection between Corbyn and Williamson and/or Webbe? And do you think they're that more well-known than Mason, at least outside of Derby or Leicester? I don't live in Islington, so not an authority on Islington stuff, but I'd always heard he was a decent constituency MP, so I thought he had a decent chance of getting back in just on the "I don't know about all this other stuff but I like that he wrote to my local council asking them to sort the potholes out/gave my nan a lovely jar of jam from his allotment" vote. And that was before October, I now reckon he's got a really good chance on the combined "well, he's good for Islington" and "I'm not very enthusiastic about bombing hospitals" vote. I can imagine Labour potentially beating that if (big if) they can put out a convincing "vote for us and we'll fix the NHS/trains/schools" message, but I really don't see them getting far with a "here, there's this person in the Midlands who you may or may not have heard of, but I swear they're a dick, and a small group you've definitely never heard of endorsed them, and also endorsed J-Corbz" line.

 

[two sheds]

people won't know them but the sun and the mail and the .... will and they'll add the relevant judgements.

 

[ska invita]

Same time, I struggle to see much that is positive in a Corbyn victory.

Corbyn might just be the best constituency MP in the country*, of course its a great thing if he wins - the people who vote for him actually elect an MP who give all his energy to helping them. There are endless stories of him taking on peoples problems and giving his all to sort them. Thats why he is got to be odds on to win the seat again.

Most MPs get elected because they want national power and resent acutally doing constituency work - Corbyn is the exact opposite . He certainly never wanted to be leader of Labour, thats on the record.

 

[two sheds]

The labour campaign against him is going to be interesting to watch.

 

[Humberto]

Corbyn stood and lost. He didn't know his limits and depth.

 

[Wilf]

Corbyn might just be the best constituency MP in the country*, of course its a great thing if he wins - the people who vote for him actually elect an MP who give all his energy to helping them. There are endless stories of him taking on peoples problems and giving his all to sort them. Thats why he is got to be odds on to win the seat again.

Most MPs get elected because they want national power and resent acutally doing constituency work - Corbyn is the exact opposite . He certainly never wanted to be leader of Labour, thats on the record.

Oh yes, I'm sure he's held in a genuine degree of affection locally and I'd hate to see some Starmer-ite robot get in. I suppose I'm just refighting the 'why did Corbyn/Momentum fuck up and how did that fuck up lead use to where we are now' battle.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

For Labour, all that matters is that there's a Labour candidate. If Corbyn refuses to stand against that candidate then he's 'who?', if he does stand against them, he's out.

Labour would prefer it, purely for the comedy value, if Corbyn lost against an official Labour candidate - particularly one identified with Starmer - but that would just be glitter on the cake, not the cake itself.

The cake is getting Corbyn to throw himself (and, ideally, any LP members stupid enough to campaign for him) out of the party. The mechanism is irrelevant - and they probably wouldn't be that devastated if an indy Corbyn won his seat, both for party discipline purposes and to remind the public of the difference between Starmer and Corbyn.

Corbyn aligning himself, however distantly, with creeps like Williamson and Webbe is that extra birthday card that arrives a week late, but has £20 in it. Delicious...

Williamson is not a creep: he was victimised on spurious grounds

 

[Larry O'Hara]

If Corbyn stands, I'd prefer that he wins, in that he would be standing against a candidate representing something awful (
starmer's Labour, the shabby treatment of Corbyn, Abbot and several others, the weaponisation of anti-semitism and plenty of other things). Same time, I struggle to see much that is positive in a Corbyn victory. His period in power was one of inept strategy, no sense that he might link the Labour Party to communities in struggle or anything other than reheated social democracy. His victory would just be as a minor thorn in starmer's side and, for that matter, a failure to even think about breaking with Parliamentary politics.

Edit: I thought Tony Benn was, generally, a fucking idiot. However, I did like his line about leaving Parliament to start doing politics (even if, from what I remember, it didn't amount to much). To be honest, I'd prefer it if Corby could come out with something similar.

So you thought Tony Benn was an idiot FFS. Can you enlighten us as to who wasn’t/isn’t?

 

[belboid]

Williamson is not a creep: he was victimised on spurious grounds

He was victimised on slightly spurious grounds (I was at the meeting which led to his suspension) but he is also a dodgy af creep. He has no principles.

 

[two sheds]

Oh yes, I'm sure he's held in a genuine degree of affection locally and I'd hate to see some Starmer-ite robot get in. I suppose I'm just refighting the 'why did Corbyn/Momentum fuck up and how did that fuck up lead use to where we are now' battle.

I thought the Corbyn/Momentum fuck up came mainly because the Labour Headquarters at the time (paid staff who until then had supported Labour leaders as they were intended to) delayed the antisemitism complaints that they were responsible for but which Corbyn was effectively found guilty of, smearing Corbyn as an antisemite.

And then they released examples of antisemitic abuse to the press that weren't actually by Labour members or Corbyn supporters as they'd pretended. And the British press jumped all over this and smeared a decent politician as antisemitic which British people somehow believed. And then diverted campaign money away that helped prevent Corbyn-supporting Labour candidates from winning parliamentary seats.

Plus Starmer and Brexit of course.

There was more of course but I thought that was the core of it.

 

[Wilf]

So you thought Tony Benn was an idiot FFS. Can you enlighten us as to who wasn’t/isn’t?

Phew, no parameters? 8 billion to go off?

 

[Wilf]

I thought the Corbyn/Momentum fuck up came mainly because the Labour Headquarters at the time (paid staff who until then had supported Labour leaders as they were intended to) delayed the antisemitism complaints that they were responsible for but which Corbyn was effectively found guilty of, smearing Corbyn as an antisemite.

And then they released examples of antisemitic abuse to the press that weren't actually by Labour members or Corbyn supporters as they'd pretended. And the British press jumped all over this and smeared a decent politician as antisemitic which British people somehow believed.

There was more of course but I thought that was the core of it.

Yeah, absolutely on the antisemitism, the role of the right in the party, they way all of that has prepared the way for the horrors of a coming starmer government. It's just on Corbyn's actual politics, I went to one of the early rallies in his campaign and it was 'welfare state, public sector, mild redistribution, better treatment of migrants and common decency'. All streets ahead of previous Labour leaders and a shining light amid decades of neoliberalism. However there was nothing there about the Labour's disengagement from the working class, the feeling that politicians have abandoned communities, no strategy to actually get out into real life and real communities. The stuff that was heavily in the mix on Brexit, which itself was a Labour omnishambles (starmer of course, but also Corbyn who didn't ... lead). Add in the Grand Old Duke of York thing with the hundreds of thousands of new members who, seemingly, just became members and weren't really used to organise or expand the party. Corbyn was faced with treachery all round from his MPs and, as you say, the Labour HQ. It's just I don't think he or Momentum had a real sense of how to build something in a world where the organic links of the working class and labour movement had broken down and politicians were widely distrusted.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I can't see Corbyn going anywhere either. It'll be like Ken Livingstone vs Frank Dobson all over again.

If it was a by-election maybe but in a general? Can't see it.

 

[belboid]

If it was a by-election maybe but in a general? Can't see it.

I'm pretty sure almost everyone in North Islington knows who Jeremy Corbyn is, far more so than any Labour candidate. And it is the name that is the most prominent thing, not the party.

Martin Bell, George Galloway and Caroline Lucas spring to mind.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

He was victimised on slightly spurious grounds (I was at the meeting which led to his suspension) but he is also a dodgy af creep. He has no principles.

Af creep??

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Phew, no parameters? 8 billion to go off?

Not an answer is it? Benn was many things: an idiot wasn’t one of them.

 

[belboid]

Af creep??

dodgy as fuck creep