More if you are Black or Asian unsurprisingly
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...to-be-charged-cannabis-cocaine_n_5359170.html
http://www.release.org.uk/sites/def...ase - Race Disparity Report final version.pdf
Is it right for The Psychedelic Society to adopt the language of past civil rights movements?
- Thread starter Johnny Vodka
- Start date
More if you are Black or Asian unsurprisingly
http://www.release.org.uk/sites/def...ase - Race Disparity Report final version.pdf
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
If you have a look on their website they should say why psychedelics over other drugs should be legalised.
I went to the first meeting last month, heard some good speeches, am pro drug legalisation and free choice, but perhaps they haven't been the wisest in their choice of words on this one!
It's fair to say that peeps who'd legalise psychedelics would consider the legalisation of other drugs - and the term 'psychedelic' can apply to many (popular) drugs, down to weed and MDMA. It's not just about recreational use; there's also a big push to raise the acceptability of these drugs so as they can be used in counselling.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
yeah and the medical argument is such a liberal sop to power 'its just medicine guv' do me a favour. where some substances can be of palliative use is an avenue worth exploring, see how far medical mj has got in america. But at the end of the day it is pleading to power. I realise that for some people the unfair and ill conceived drug laws are the first time they have experienced hostility and sanction from the state. If you'd had it for your skin colour, your gender, your sexuality, your social class then you'd be a bit less blase about raising other peoples banners to support the cause.
In many ways magic mushrooms are not even a drug and it's ridiculous that they are a class A drug like crack and heroin. Mushrooms are non addictive, physically harmless and generally non harmful to mental health. They don't fuel crime and can't be used to escape your problems. I've worked around the country in drug and alcohol community drug teams around the country with adults and children, including a stint in criminal justice and a rehab. I have never had a magic mushroom client, and to the best of my knowledge neither have my co-workers.
Also talk of well it's a choice unlike sexuality or colour seems to be a moot point because whether you are born as something makes no difference if you are deemed a danger to society. For example a pedophile or a psychopath could argue that they did not choose to be who they are.
Also talk of well it's a choice unlike sexuality or colour seems to be a moot point because whether you are born as something makes no difference if you are deemed a danger to society. For example a pedophile or a psychopath could argue that they did not choose to be who they are.
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Corrected: probably the first time I've ever used the word.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
fucking hell.
do you believe that psychedelic drug use can be harmful to a person's mental health?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Just joshin'
I agree that it's a bit of a red herring talking about whether it's a choice - bit of a cultural hangover from recent struggles. Took a while for it to gain any purchase in the case of gay rights too for reasons JV touched on, as well as implying queer-bashing would be more defensible if being gay was a choice.
Horrible argument once you start thinking it through.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
In the absence of legalisation, most of them just sit at home glumly smoking Rothmans.
While not denying that some illegal drugs could have medical benefits, it's always struck me that many of the people arguing that point really just want to get shitfaced without threat of sanction
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I think the medical argument makes more sense in the states where a lot of people who get really tangible pain relief and big life-benefits from MJ, are unable to afford the legal equivalents because they are uninsured so the medical argument is important there, even though it's also used by people who are just trying to get backdoor recreational legalisation. If you've got an NHS, free at point of use, the medical argument just isn't pressing in the same way.
ska invita
back on the other side
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Means to an end. In Washington state it was first legalised for medical use, and now they're moving to full legalisation.
gamerunknown
Well-Known Member
Let me preface by saying that the appropriation of civil rights terminology is both insipid and apparently effective. I'd suppose the majority of the members of the board were aware of the arguments for legalisation, but there wasn't really an impetus to discuss it.
The same argument was unsuccessfully used to defend anti-miscegenation laws (blacks and whites have the right to marry, just not the right to marry each other).
A major part of the civil rights movement was refusing to comply with discriminatory legislation in order to demonstrate the retrograde nature of such legislation.
The same argument was unsuccessfully used to defend anti-miscegenation laws (blacks and whites have the right to marry, just not the right to marry each other).
A major part of the civil rights movement was refusing to comply with discriminatory legislation in order to demonstrate the retrograde nature of such legislation.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
On occasion we have a civic duty to disregard certain laws.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Depends where you're getting your idea of rights from. If you're not defining 'rights' as 'that which the law says', and you're in fact claiming that the law is denying you your rights, as you see them, where does that 'right' come from?
In the US, rights come from the constitution, no? This is a very American way of looking at things, as people can point at the constitution and make the case that certain laws break with constitutionally guaranteed rights. In that case, you can very plausibly say that you have a civil right to disobey a law that denies you rights guaranteed in the constitution. Abortion rights in the US were won that way, as was a temporary ending of executions.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think the US way has its pros and cons. It does lead to people being able to put pressure on to change laws. But it also means that laws are changed without ever really winning the argument. So the abortion debate rumbles on. Executions were reinstated with a change in Supreme Court personnel.
Such an approach certainly wouldn't work here. European court, I guess, is the closest we have.
Such an approach certainly wouldn't work here. European court, I guess, is the closest we have.
ska invita
back on the other side
I was going to say, the EU has become the UKs go to supra-national arbitrator on issues of human rights. We really need a bill of rights here in the UK <seems long overdue
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
A robust EU bill of rights would work just as well.
My problem with this kind of approach is that the system actually allows politicians to play what they think are populist cards, such as being anti-abortion rights, knowing full well that they won't have to act on those cards once they're elected, and they won't be held to account for not acting because they can't but they also won't be held to account for the shitmess that actually doing what they say they want to do would cause. Paradoxically, it can lead to more reactionary elected officials peddling cheap populism.
eg The last thing many anti-abortion US politicians actually want is an overturning of the Wade ruling. They'd be in a right pickle.
ska invita
back on the other side
thats interesting...politicians eh!
I would rather a UK bill of rights as I think politics should be enacted at the local level as much as possible. The process of making an appeal to the European court is, ive no idea but id imagine, a hugely complex and awkward thing to do. The better the political system the more accessible and interactive it is.
I would rather a UK bill of rights as I think politics should be enacted at the local level as much as possible. The process of making an appeal to the European court is, ive no idea but id imagine, a hugely complex and awkward thing to do. The better the political system the more accessible and interactive it is.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, I agree with you about enacting things on as local a level as possible. Nothing to stop subsets within a region adding their own rights to a larger bill of rights, of course. Here in the UK, the local level has been neutered so much that it's easy to forget how much it used to do. I'm reminded of Alan Bennett talking about when he went to university. Not only did he get the national govt grant, he also got a grant from Leeds council, because they didn't think the national grant was enough.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
this is where it goes you see, earnest argument about rights and duty and blah fucking blah. Just take your drugs and work on not getting caught bang at it by teh law.
ska invita
back on the other side
we havent gotten on to duty yet
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
DC you're usually sound but your advice seems to be "Don't get stopped,don't get searched". I am just glad i grew up in a time where the police didn't have target numbers for S&S.
I think its an unjust law that unfairly discriminates and retrospectively justifies discrimination, most charges arising from stop and search are for cannabis possession.
I dont give two hoots if someone somewhere is using a clip-art generated fist on their campaign if it helps stop the criminalisation of a generation of young men and women.
andysays
Love and solidarity
So where are you getting your idea of rights from?
Where, specifically, do you get the idea that taking psychedelics is a civil right, by any generally recognised or vaguely coherent version of that term, as opposed to some other type of right, or even "I should have the right to do anything which I want to do" which is what this particular trip seems to boil down to?
andysays
Love and solidarity
Where is your evidence for the idea that a generation of young men and women is or has been criminalised by the prohibition of psychedelics? And why are you focussing on the use of a clip art generated fist rather than the appropriation of the language of civil rights?
This is all getting a bit
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