Is it right for The Psychedelic Society to adopt the language of past civil rights movements?

[Blagsta]

And so it begins

Standard in Birmingham innit doe

 

[andysays]

I think there's an argument that people who suffer from addiction to (illegal) drugs have some of their rights denied, treatment is seen as politically unimportant, they are criminalised, treatment budgets cut etc.

That's not the same thing as the op is arguing though.

All those things are significant issues, but not civil rights issues, as you have argued in various other posts on this thread which I agree with.

 

[8ball]

It's the SWP logo, but with changes of colour

Ah, knew it was familiar.

 

[DotCommunist]

I think it takes the rise and I say that as someone who likes to grow and eat mushies every now and then.

in fact its the sort of crass twatty co-option of the language of someone elses struggle that can only come from acid casualties.

 

[BigTom]

Is it really taboo? I'm always walking past people smoking weed, it seems the whole neighbourhood stinks of it sometimes. Even my extremely conventional right-wing parents knew I smoked spliff in my room when I was a teenager.

weed pretty much isn't nowadays, maybe another generation to legality I reckon and a similar social status to alcohol. It's falling away in the USA right now. Other drugs, not so much.

Talking about pride or something similar is one thing (though I imagine that some of those concerned with Gay Pride or Black Pride might think you were appropriating their term for something comparatively trivial), but using the language of civil rights is frankly nonsense.

Drug users are not subject to removal of their civil rights, ie segregation and systematic discrimination in all areas of their lives, or denied the legal recognitions and protections of their citizenship rights, as were those who suffered on the basis of systematic racist or gender discrimination.

No one has a civil right to simply disregard any of the laws they don't personally agree with, though they're welcome to argue that those laws should be changed.

I agree with you, not least because of the bit in bold.
But if someone is imprisoned as a result of their use of psychedelics, then they do have civil rights removed - they lose the right to vote, freedom of movement and freedom of assembly. It's just not on a scale or for a reason that is comparable to the black / feminist / gay civil rights movements - that doesn't mean that there aren't parallels to be drawn though, or that some of the ways in which we can act to bring about a change in the laws aren't going to be the same/similar.

 

[ska invita]

i think theres a relationship between Taboo and Pride which is most relevant here

 

[8ball]

I think it takes the rise and I say that as someone who likes to grow and eat mushies every now and then.

in fact its the sort of crass twatty co-option of the language of someone elses struggle that can only come from acid casualties.

The term 'pride' has been attached to a heap of movements since the civil rights movement in America, because it has worked in various contexts where it has been necessary to combat stigma. Obviously some uses involve larger-scale problems than others and it will be picked up by the odd 'niche' group, but that's nothing new.

 

[DotCommunist]

the horrible stigma of tie dye and grateful dead cd's

 

[ska invita]

the horrible stigma of tie dye and grateful dead cd's

its a burden

 

[Citizen66]

The use of the black power fist too.

The symbol of #psychedelicpride is the neon fist.

Hasn't flower power bindun?

 

[DotCommunist]

of all the oppression and injustice in the world...

 

[Citizen66]

of all the oppression and injustice in the world...

 

[SpookyFrank]

If they open up your mind so much, how come people who do loads of psychedelics are always so crushingly dull?

 

[Red Cat]

What do you mean by "as a group"?

I suppose I mean are they subject to structural oppression? Does another group of people profit from the oppression of psychedelic drug users? Who are they? And in what way? Does the discriminated against status of psychedelic drug users make them more likely to be subject to greater exploitation?

 

[DotCommunist]

tbf I don't want or need the permission of borgouis courts to enjoy my drugs.

complacent potheads and mushie users who can be seen nowhere normally but come after thier drug of choice and suddenly everyones lenin at pulpit

 

[BigTom]

I suppose I mean are they subject to structural oppression? Does another group of people profit from the oppression of psychedelic drug users? Who are they? And in what way? Does the discriminated against status of psychedelic drug users make them more likely to be subject to greater exploitation?

Short answer would be no, not really. Although if we talk about drugs generally, and look at the way the private prison industry funds lobbying for the war on drugs in order to criminalise (largely poor, black, male) Americans, then I think you could answer yes to every other question - but this is more crack and heroin that are used in that way and afaik really just the states, I don't think any other country has such a developed private prison industry, or one that is so keen to get as many people incarcerated as possible.

I suppose with the last one, about greater exploitation, with drugs being illegal you can get ripped off when purchasing more easily than if they weren't, it's easy to not get ripped off buying beer, but is that exploitation? I don't think it's what you mean... and definitely clutching at straws for an argument I don't support anway

 

[BigTom]

tbf I don't want or need the permission of borgouis courts to enjoy my drugs.

complacent potheads and mushie users who can be seen nowhere normally but come after thier drug of choice and suddenly everyones lenin at pulpit

Just don't say that to the magistrate if you're up in front of them for growing a bit of weed to smoke, might as well claim you're a freeman on the land, Dot of the family communist

 

[SpookyFrank]

I think it's fair to say that while psychedelic drug users might be considered oppressed, there are people in the world who sufer greater oppression, and generally for reasons which aren't a matter of choice on their part.

So basically when everyone else who is oppressed in this world is finally free from tyranny, maybe then I'll start to give a fuck about DMT munters. Maybe. Probably not though.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I think it's fair to say that while psychedelic drug users might be considered oppressed, there are people in the world who sufer greater oppression, and generally for reasons which aren't a matter of choice on their part.

This is about unfair and discriminatory laws. Why should those with a preference for weed face the risk of prosecution when alcohol users can drink unhassled? There is a tie with drug laws and racism in that many drugs were apparently banned because of their ties with ethnic communities, while alcohol was always seen as a 'white' drug.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

One of my karaoke songs. But this is more about your right to relax after a hard week at work - not that trivial once you start to think about it.

 

[DotCommunist]

I think you're imagining it Vodka- or even if you are right its not that bad really

 

[friendofdorothy]

I was trying to remember, was the process you're talking about referred to/described by those involved specifically as a civil rights issue, or was it referred to mainly as Gay Pride? My (admittedly vague and not involved) recollection is that it was the latter, but I'm sure you will be able to correct me if I'm wrong.

And as far as your final point goes, if the article linked to in the OP (and the arguments trotted out here so far) are anything to go by, then I suspect we will all be disappointed

Not clear what you are asking. I've always thought gay rights are civil rights.* When you say 'Gay Pride' do you mean the annual march or are you refering to the gay rights movement in general, there were lots of organisations/campaigns over the years, with different aims and purpose. The idea that personal was political was well established in the feminist movement, so the concept of 'coming out' was a political act, not just a personal one, well that was a fairly common idea amongst many (well it was when I came out in '80s)

Not sure any of that applies to the 'right' to consumption of any substance whether its drugs, alcohol or tobacco.

 

[Pickman's model]

its a burden

more of a burdon

 

[SpookyFrank]

This is about unfair and discriminatory laws. Why should those with a preference for weed face the risk of prosecution when alcohol users can drink unhassled? There is a tie with drug laws and racism in that many drugs were apparently banned because of their ties with ethnic communities, while alcohol was always seen as a 'white' drug.

Personally as a white, heterosexual British male who smokes weed sometimes I'd feel a bit of a twat calling myself 'opressed'. It's definitely an inconvenience, not being able to get a draw from the corner shop but in the grand scheme of things, it could be worse.

People who get locked up because the only way of making a living in their neighbourhood is mugging old ladies or selling weed and they chose the non-stabby option, that's oppression. It's also a kind of oppression which is more likely to affect black people than white people.

 

[el-ahrairah]

i'm absolutely fine with magic musrooms being legalised but the expressions used are ham-fisted and offensive. it's cos-playing being an oppressed minority and it absolutely trivialises the genuine oppression of millions of people.

 

[8ball]

Personally as a white, heterosexual British male who smokes weed sometimes I'd feel a bit of a twat calling myself 'opressed'.

That would be silly, but neither the OP or the Psychedelic Society have used the word 'oppression' afaik.

 

[SpookyFrank]

That would be silly, but neither the OP or the Psychedelic Society have used the word 'oppression' afaik.

The whole black power fist thing does rather imply it though.

 

[Citizen66]

There is a tie with drug laws and racism in that many drugs were apparently banned because of their ties with ethnic communities, while alcohol was always seen as a 'white' drug.

Apart from 1920 to 1933 in the US, presumably?

 

[DotCommunist]

i'm absolutely fine with magic musrooms being legalised but the expressions used are ham-fisted and offensive. it's cos-playing being an oppressed minority and it absolutely trivialises the genuine oppression of millions of people.

I find it richly ironic that the OP suddenly recognizes an injustice- when it pertains to his rights. Liberals eh

 

[SpookyFrank]

i'm absolutely fine with magic musrooms being legalised but the expressions used are ham-fisted and offensive. it's cos-playing being an oppressed minority and it absolutely trivialises the genuine oppression of millions of people.

Nailed it.

I used to support legalisation of everything, but then I read that artile in the OP and now I think we should legalise everything except whatever these guys are taking.