Is it right for The Psychedelic Society to adopt the language of past civil rights movements?

[8ball]

The whole black power fist thing does rather imply it though.

In terms of that exact logo, it seems to have been filched from the SWP.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Personally as a white, heterosexual British male who smokes weed sometimes I'd feel a bit of a twat calling myself 'opressed'. It's definitely an inconvenience, not being able to get a draw from the corner shop but in the grand scheme of things, it could be worse.

Get caught and you might find out what oppression is. Also weed being illegal is another excuse for stop & search, which disproportionally affects black youths.

 

[el-ahrairah]

The whole black power fist thing does rather imply it though.

they use the language and imagery of anti-oppression struggles - this isn't an accident.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Also weed being illegal is another excuse for stop & search, which disproportionally affects black youths.

A fair point but that's not a result of the law itself, it's a result of the racism of the filth. If weed was legal they would find some other reason, or indeed no reason at all, to harass black folks.

 

[friendofdorothy]

In terms of that exact logo, it seems to have been filched from the SWP.

Perhaps the PS are not thinking very clearly on this one.

 

[ska invita]

i'm absolutely fine with magic musrooms being legalised but the expressions used are ham-fisted and offensive. it's cos-playing being an oppressed minority and it absolutely trivialises the genuine oppression of millions of people.

well there wasnt enough on that link to make me feel offended..... i agree with your sentiment, but i dont feel like theyve crossed that line in to bad taste, but its an interesting discussion this one

 

[el-ahrairah]

Get caught and you might find out what oppression is.

a six month caution and having your weed taken off you. if you're really unlucky.

you fucking clown.

 

[el-ahrairah]

actually, a bloke i know got a lifetime caution. imagine that. for possessing weed. the oppression. he builds motorways these days. well, he makes sure they're being built properly. oppression

 

[DotCommunist]

This is about unfair and discriminatory laws. Why should those with a preference for weed face the risk of prosecution when alcohol users can drink unhassled? There is a tie with drug laws and racism in that many drugs were apparently banned because of their ties with ethnic communities, while alcohol was always seen as a 'white' drug.

the us and uk states tied anti-drug propaganda to an already existing and powerful social prejudice (one they were and are happy to stoke when it aids them). Its that simple

 

[DotCommunist]

a six month caution and having your weed taken off you. if you're really unlucky.

you fucking clown.

police fine- 80 quid. The crushing jackboot

I'm poor enough that 80 quid would sting badly mind. They'd have to take it out of my dole on a payment plan

 

[FridgeMagnet]

There are lots of great reasons why drug laws need changing and lots of appalling ways that they are used - particularly in the US - but none of the reasons rely on the idea of drug users being persecuted by unfair drug laws specifically because they are drug users. Using drug laws to disenfranchise significant portions of the population, make money for government systems and private prisons, boost the profits of pharma companies etc etc is not down to the state hating dope smokers.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

a six month caution and having your weed taken off you. if you're really unlucky.

you fucking clown.

 

[Pickman's model]

There are lots of great reasons why drug laws need changing and lots of appalling ways that they are used - particularly in the US - but none of the reasons rely on the idea of drug users being persecuted by unfair drug laws specifically because they are drug users. Using drug laws to disenfranchise significant portions of the population, make money for government systems and private prisons, boost the profits of pharma companies etc etc is not down to the state hating dope smokers.

and anyway it's not like stop and search hits a high percentage of dope smokers anyway.

 

[Blagsta]

actually, a bloke i know got a lifetime caution. imagine that. for possessing weed. the oppression. he builds motorways these days. well, he makes sure they're being built properly. oppression

I got a £100 fine. It's had no significant effect on my life.

 

[BigTom]

actually, a bloke i know got a lifetime caution. imagine that. for possessing weed. the oppression. he builds motorways these days. well, he makes sure they're being built properly. oppression

and a friend of mine is currently 6 months through a 3 year stretch, for intent to supply, he wasn't even in possession of the weed, he was done for intent to supply on the basis of paper records from his dealer for sales over a couple of years iirc

It's not just about personals or about weed. Know lots of people, or friends of friends, who have served time or have records that mean that they won't be able to work in schools or probably some other jobs, 10 pills back in the late 90s could see you going down for a year if you got the wrong judge.

Jailtime is definitely oppression in my book, being restricted from jobs because of previous drug use too. Nothing like racism, sexism or homophobia mind, but no reason to trivialise it like that.

 

[andysays]

Not clear what you are asking. I've always thought gay rights are civil rights.* When you say 'Gay Pride' do you mean the annual march or are you refering to the gay rights movement in general, there were lots of organisations/campaigns over the years, with different aims and purpose. The idea that personal was political was well established in the feminist movement, so the concept of 'coming out' was a political act, not just a personal one, well that was a fairly common idea amongst many (well it was when I came out in '80s)

Not sure any of that applies to the 'right' to consumption of any substance whether its drugs, alcohol or tobacco.

Apologies for not being clear.

I now realise that what I'm talking about is generally referred to as the Gay Liberation movement of the late sixties onward, which might have been inspired to some extent by the black civil rights movement earlier in the decade, but I don't remember it being explicitly referred to as a civil rights movement. It's that last bit I was wondering about.

According to this definition here

Civil rights include the ensuring of peoples' physical and mental integrity, life and safety; protection from discrimination on grounds such as race, gender, national origin, colour, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, or disability; and individual rights such as privacy, the freedoms of thought and conscience, speech and expression, religion, the press, assembly and movement.

however, we are talking about civil rights which were clearly being denied to LGBT people, and which are not being denied to those who want the right to partake of psychedelics.

 

[8ball]

however, we are talking about civil rights which were clearly being denied to LGBT people, and which are not being denied to those who want the right to partake of psychedelics.

You think things would be *less* absurd if the Psychedelic Society was campaigning for the decriminalisation of homosexuality?
On the other hand, maybe we should expect a degree of surreality given the subject...

 

[BigTom]

and anyway it's not like stop and search hits a high percentage of dope smokers anyway.

iirc when they were arguing for scrapping s44 anti-terrorism act s&s the largest charge resulting from a stop and search was for possession of cannabis, and none for terrorism.

Apologies for not being clear.

I now realise that what I'm talking about is generally referred to as the Gay Liberation movement of the late sixties onward, which might have been inspired to some extent by the black civil rights movement earlier in the decade, but I don't remember it being explicitly referred to as a civil rights movement. It's that last bit I was wondering about.

According to this definition here

Civil rights include the ensuring of peoples' physical and mental integrity, life and safety; protection from discrimination on grounds such as race, gender, national origin, colour, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, or disability; and individual rights such as privacy, the freedoms of thought and conscience, speech and expression, religion, the press, assembly and movement.

however, we are talking about civil rights which were clearly being denied to LGBT people, and which are not being denied to those who want the right to partake of psychedelics.

The ones in bold are. The rights to assembly and movement are also denied to those jailed, along with the right to vote.

 

[Pickman's model]

iirc when they were arguing for scrapping s44 anti-terrorism act s&s the largest charge resulting from a stop and search was for possession of cannabis, and none for terrorism.

yes. but what percentage of stop and searches resulted in a charge?

 

[BigTom]

yes. but what percentage of stop and searches resulted in a charge?

no idea, it was just a throwaway comment really.

 

[el-ahrairah]

Jailtime is definitely oppression in my book, being restricted from jobs because of previous drug use too. Nothing like racism, sexism or homophobia mind, but no reason to trivialise it like that.

bad me. forgot to have solidarity with drug dealers.

 

[el-ahrairah]

just to add, i do believe that the prison system is oppression, the system is corrupt and needs change, and that only in exceptional cases should non-dangerous people be incarcerated.

 

[el-ahrairah]

it's just that this is absurd. it allows peolpe to bang on about how oppressed they are because of their fucking hobby. it's the same bullshit as all that identity one-upmanship you see that means, in the end, that somehow or other middle clas white people are always the most fucking oppressed.

campaign to legalise drugs by all means, but don't pretend it's it;s a liberation movement. the only people that you won't look like cunts to are other fatuous self-obsessed tossers.

 

[andysays]

...The ones in bold are. The rights to assembly and movement are also denied to those jailed, along with the right to vote.

The rights to assemble, move freely and vote are denied to all convicted criminals whilst in prison, not just users of psychedelics. Once they have been released, they are generally restored.

You are not denied the right to hold a meeting of people to discuss the issue of legalisation of psychedelics, or to travel to take part in such a meeting, or if you wish to stand for election as a candidate advocating legalisation of psychedelics or to vote for such a candidate.

Black people in pre-civil rights America were routinely denied all those rights, not on the basis of being guilty of a crime, but simply by virtue of being black.

It's really not the same. By all means argue that the prohibition of psychedelics is unfair, unjust, criminalises some people unnecessarily, whatever. But using the language of civil rights is bollocks, IMO.

 

[DotCommunist]

I suppose the rastafarai have the right to claim it as an oppresion- weed smoking is part f the faith iirc

 

[BigTom]

it's just that this is absurd. it allows peolpe to bang on about how oppressed they are because of their fucking hobby. it's the same bullshit as all that identity one-upmanship you see that means, in the end, that somehow or other middle clas white people are always the most fucking oppressed.

campaign to legalise drugs by all means, but don't pretend it's it;s a liberation movement. the only people that you won't look like cunts to are other fatuous self-obsessed tossers.

I completely agree with this, but the way you were talking it was like you were saying there were no major consequences to an individual cos of the legal side of weed which is bollocks, and I don't hold that there's a difference between users and dealers, neither should be getting penalised for an involvement in drugs. Unless they are shit drugs.

 

[DotCommunist]

I think theres an ethical consideration to be made. I grow my own mushrooms sometimes, I buy weed from a grower I know who grows for himself and a few mates.

I know in a capitalist society we can never escape complicity in our own degradation etc but be real on it- if you don't know the supply chain its probably got blood on it. From mexican narco terror to stabbings on brit streets. Its just not on. Very few products that I'll take such a hard line on. Not because mu boycott changes anything but cos it doesn't feel right.

 

[JTG]

Why are these boring hippy twats singling out just their own particular favourite intoxicants for this campaign? Bit of solidarity with the crackheads and speed freaks please or I'll just have to assume you're just self interested dickwads

 

[el-ahrairah]

crackhead pride.

one of our projects is kind of like this. crack is, as they say, a hell of a drug

 

[zenie]

Why are these boring hippy twats singling out just their own particular favourite intoxicants for this campaign? Bit of solidarity with the crackheads and speed freaks please or I'll just have to assume you're just self interested dickwads

If you have a look on their website they should say why psychedelics over other drugs should be legalised.

I went to the first meeting last month, heard some good speeches, am pro drug legalisation and free choice, but perhaps they haven't been the wisest in their choice of words on this one!