FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Never going to happen.
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh the people will never be trusted with a referendum again
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I don't think his fudge is helping him electorally so I think it would. He is not making any headway as it is.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Just getting on to something more interesting for a second - imagine if Corbyn wasn't leading Labour and you had someone like Yvette Cooper or Tristram Hunt as Leader of the Opposition right now. They'd lead the charge to stop Brexit and reverse the referendum and we'd probably have the Tories in another 10 years or more.
Not saying this as some sort of token defence of Corbyn, just that it would actually be pretty convenient for the establishment if they hadn't lost control a bit in the Labour Party right now.
Yvette Cooper would have a very similar policy to Corbyn as leader fwiw. She isn't one of the remain ultras. Aren't you following this stuff?
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
brexit-truth-revised.pdf
Great run down on No Deal reality - he's still getting called a scaremonger on Twitter.
2.5 million views - and people are bored of this shit, really?
Great run down on No Deal reality - he's still getting called a scaremonger on Twitter.
2.5 million views - and people are bored of this shit, really?
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
HR is easier to spell...
At mine, it went from personnel to HR and then back again. TBH, I don't use either term.
i can think of a few terms for most of them...
mauvais
on reddit or something
I mean, you've just done it again in this post. What you've linked to is my assessment on where we are - and you can certainly argue it's wrong - but what you've presented it as is my assessment of where we should be. 'Most important factor' is your phrase, not mine, and implies that this is a philosophy rather than commentary.
Take your bin dispute. There are obviously many factors behind this, and it can be many things at once. But, choosing from two oversimplified possibilities, what's the most direct & immediate driver of it? Is it, as you put it, the [overall & inevitable] interaction between capital and labour? Or is it a specific result of austerity as inflicted on councils and as selected by the national government? If you can't argue out of it being the latter, then why are we arguing about what the biggest influence (my words this time) on conditions is? At most it's framing. None of this is to assert that this situation is right. The whole discussion that you have pointed to is not about that, but my lack of faith in whether we can expect it to change any time soon.
ska invita
back on the other side
Second referendum or we quit Labour MPs, what's the thinking? It's not as if the commons will vote for a second referendum... Corbyn doesn't have the power to make it happen anyhow. Does anyone know the motivation here? Is it just to create a cleavage within the party?
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Well, hang on, she's not demanding a second ref but she's trying to build cross party support for an amendment that would force an extension of A50. Which looks to me like a much more sensible tactic if you want to stop Brexit to me.
In any case though, I don't think you can infer from the situation now how a Labour Party that hadn't suddenly trebled its membership, with a fairly unified PLP that still revered Blair instead of flirting with policies that break with neoliberal orthodoxy would have operated over the last 3/4 years. It's not quite the same organisation. They would have been much more firmly the party of remain throughout the process.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Probably not tomorrow, but I don't see any reason to suppose it can't happen under any circumstance. If either front bench supported it, then it would be likely to pass. That could easily happen because Labour can't at any point decide to just sit on their hands, and there are a limited number of positions left for them to work through. And because the Tories are already quite close to having boxed themselves in to the extent that they will have to do whatever the EU requires (that might not mean a referendum, but it could) in order to secure an article 50 extension.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Making noise about a second ref in an attempt to make it seem more likely?
Making noise about a cross party breakaway party to make it seem more likely?
Dunno really. Maybe they're just out of ideas.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
She looks jus like me sista Carol, she live next door, is she a secret famous?
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
No you used "biggest enabler" instead, hardly that a misrepresentation. And you then went on to state that
You can't make statements like these and then argue that your politics isn't PP (you term) driven.
What do you mean by austerity? The set of policies implemented by governments since 2007?
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
What's the evidence these Labour MPs are going to quit besides the Guardian advert, the same one they've been running for the last two years?
ska invita
back on the other side
No evidence, Im asking about the thinking/strategy behind it. It doesnt really make any sense on any level
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I'm sure it does, from their perspective
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I think the thinking is “This is what ‘my public’ want to hear me saying”.
Whether or not it’s electorally advantageous depends on the particular constituency.
ska invita
back on the other side
Its weird, its likely an empty threat as to whether they'll follow through, but more importantly its a demand that cant be met. The call for a vote of no confidence was the same nonsense/charade - Corbyn did it in the end and now its off the table.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Politics-as-Twitter-post.
Well, she campaigned in the general election promising her constituents in the general election campaign that she would never block brexit and her proposed amendment - drawn up with Nick Bowles, who also doesn't want to stop brexit, and currently withdrawn again because there's no chance ATM of getting enough support for it - is explicitly to avoid a no deal cliff edge.
Maybe that's all bluff though.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Another on the unexpected consequences of Brexit purely for interest, Got this email this morning, since I'm a self-employed one man band, I have a company email address, when I registered the .co.uk one I got the .eu for free it seems I could lose it. This doesn't actually bother me, I'm a long way from being a global megacorp but I wonder how many companies this will affect especially the bit about trademarks.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Be a credible leader?.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
What do you mean "real"?.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Investment avoids uncertainty, I guess, and the last two years have been nothing if not uncertain. It's still uncertain. So an argument there would be that once it is done, however it is done really, the uncertainty reduces and investment returns, perhaps with a bit of a spike if some of that investment has merely been delayed rather than withdrawn. That could give a bit of a misleading picture of a 'brexit bounce' when in reality it is just recovering some of the lost ground caused by the brexit process. I hate to think of the kinds of 'incentives' that will be produced by a post-brexit government to bring investment back. To the bottom we race...
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I know (and I wouldn't be surprised if it was bluff), but the point of the original post was that without the historical accident of Corbyn getting on the ballot, the situation would be radically different
Do you think if someone other than Corbyn had been elected leader, that Labour might not be positioning themselves as the anti Brexit party right now?
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