Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[brogdale]

Good article going through procedure.. sounds like it knows what its talking about. Though as ever there's a few Ifs and Coulds.

The bit about second ref is guardian click bait sub editing, though it does consider that eventuality

We’re heading for a second referendum – and maybe a third | Vernon Bogdanor

Vernon Bogdanor most certainly knows what he is talking about but he is, of course, not without his own elite, liberal agenda. Remember that this is the Brasenose professor who said of one notable former PPE undergrad..."one of the ablest" students he has taught with "moderate and sensible Conservative" political views.

Which kind of brings us to where we are.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

So hard brexit will be ok if there is a deal?

Alex

If by hard Brexit you mean leaving the single market and customs union, yeah it could be fine, all the other countries in the world except those in the EU’s single market manage just fine.

 

[Raheem]

If by hard Brexit you mean leaving the single market and customs union, yeah it could be fine, all the other countries in the world except those in the EU’s single market manage just fine.

On average, though, not as well as the UK currently does.

 

[Voley]

'Ramoners'

 

[kebabking]

On average, though, not as well as the UK currently does.

Most people who get divorced aren't as well off as they were when they were married, but they are a fuck of a lot happier...

 

[paolo]

Most people who get divorced aren't as well off as they were when they were married, but they are a fuck of a lot happier...

Divorcees are happier than people who are married?

(If you're not saying that, apologies)

 

[brogdale]

Most people who get divorced aren't as well off as they were when they were married, but they are a fuck of a lot happier...

...but not if they re-marry instantly into another controlling relationship and realise it's the institution of 'marriage' that sucks...not merely the 'partner(s)'.

 

[tommers]

Are we still talking about Brexit?

 

[Supine]

Most people who get divorced aren't as well off as they were when they were married, but they are a fuck of a lot happier...

But they dont have to live next door to each other and trade with each other so it's not a great analogy.

 

[ska invita]

The divorce analogy is way too simplistic to describe the myriad integrations to unpick... It's like the attempt to describe the financial crisis and austerity as how much money is in that porcelain Chicken in that old Liverpool comedy Bread. By simplifying it hides realities and truths.

 

[brogdale]

Are we still talking about Brexit?

 

[Yossarian]

But they dont have to live next door to each other and trade with each other so it's not a great analogy.

Divorced middle-aged man might not be such a bad analogy for post-Brexit Britain - not hard to see the country moaning about its ex all the time and blowing shitloads of money on a sports-car industry to try to impress countries much younger than it.

 

[Supine]

Divorced middle-aged man might not be such a bad analogy for post-Brexit Britain - not hard to see the country moaning about its ex all the time and blowing shitloads of money on a sports-car industry to try to impress countries much younger than it.

Hopefully not divorced middle aged man who ends up on the streets with a drug problem begging for scraps from passing nations.

 

[The Fornicator]

Hardly a divorce is it; customs union means - according to this analogy - we still living together.

We're going on separate holidays and staying together until the kids leave school or something is about all - daft, pointless comparison for the hard of understanding.

 

[Raheem]

I think we all need to accept that the analogy has happened and it has produced a clear outcome. It may not have given everyone everything they might have hoped for, but what we should all do now is come together as a thread and make it work. I know there are some who think we could manage perfectly well without an analogy. But that would put the strength of our rhetorical style at risk. Others may favour a second analogy, but that might make some of us very grumpy. What people say to me when I meet them in the street is that they just want us to get on with it, and I've been very clear that that's what I intend to do.

 

[paolo]

..

 

[DexterTCN]

...but what we should all do now is come together as a thread and make it work....

ummm....nope

you broke it...you fix it

 

[DexterTCN]

Emphasis on the last sentence.

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[Supine]

Brilliant

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain?

 

[NoXion]

Brilliant

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain?

Hmmm...

"You can't blame the EU for it really. They are coming up with these short time scales and cliff edges because it gives them a negotiating advantage. There's only so cross you can get with someone for ruthlessly pursuing their interests when your own leaders are too incompetent to do the same. Be angry instead at the Brexiters who demand short transitions in an emotional fit and fail to understand that it is our own leverage they eradicate."

Not sure I get how the manifest and undeniable incompetence of our own negotiators is somehow supposed to let the EU off the hook. "Self-interest" makes for no defence. It's in the "self-interest" of con-men to extract money from their marks, but strangely the courts do not perceive that to be any kind of mitigating factor.

 

[toblerone3]

Anna Soubry, Keir Starmer, Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammie, Emily Thornberry, Stella Creasy, Gina Millar, Ken Clarke, Sadiq Khan, Caroline Lucas, Andy Burnham. Who else should be included in the new government of talents to reverse Brexit?

 

[Bavid Dowie]

Hmmm...

"You can't blame the EU for it really. They are coming up with these short time scales and cliff edges because it gives them a negotiating advantage. There's only so cross you can get with someone for ruthlessly pursuing their interests when your own leaders are too incompetent to do the same. Be angry instead at the Brexiters who demand short transitions in an emotional fit and fail to understand that it is our own leverage they eradicate."

Not sure I get how the manifest and undeniable incompetence of our own negotiators is somehow supposed to let the EU off the hook. "Self-interest" makes for no defence. It's in the "self-interest" of con-men to extract money from their marks, but strangely the courts do not perceive that to be any kind of mitigating factor.

They are trying to get the UK parliament to cancel brexit. The UK is given privileged status like France and Germany in the EU, they are still giving special allowance at this point.
UK leaving is going to upend the EU, the British government are saying it's for their interests so of course the EU are not going to be honourable about it.

 

[Raheem]

Anna Soubry, Keir Starmer, Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammie, Emily Thornberry, Stella Creasy, Gina Millar, Ken Clarke, Sadiq Khan, Caroline Lucas, Andy Burnham. Who else should be included in the new government of talents to reverse Brexit?

Doesn't matter. Who is in the government doesn't change what the options are.

 

[Rob Ray]

I love this idea that there is any circumstance where the EU would have done anything other than try to extract the maximum that their leverage would allow. As though "honour" has a place in major trade negotiations between competing States.

 

[Wilf]

Anna Soubry, Keir Starmer, Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammie, Emily Thornberry, Stella Creasy, Gina Millar, Ken Clarke, Sadiq Khan, Caroline Lucas, Andy Burnham....

... your boys took one helluva beating.

 

[The Fornicator]

Anna Soubry, Keir Starmer, Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammie, Emily Thornberry, Stella Creasy, Gina Millar, Ken Clarke, Sadiq Khan, Caroline Lucas, Andy Burnham. Who else should be included in the new government of talents to reverse Brexit?

Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and John Major.

 

[Bavid Dowie]

Jennifer, Alison, Phillipa, Sue

 

[Dr. Furface]

Are we still talking about Brexit?

Future-proofed question

 

[Poi E]

Brilliant

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain?

"The problem is not that it is badly written. Some incredibly talented and ingenious people have put this thing together. It is technically accomplished and well drafted."

i.e. Britain didn't draft it. No joke.