Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Silas Loom]

ye right

Well, if you’re right, and we’re heading for a no-deal crash-out with empty shelves, dizzying price inflation and a collapse in public services, rather than a protracted implementation argument, then there’s going to be a valid argument about rejoining - even on the terms that Kebabking suggests.

 

[redsquirrel]

Also, I don't feel like bringing it up is particularly irrelevant or below the belt - if somebody has almost literally spearheaded what turned out to be a disastrous foreign policy exercise that left more than a million people dead and destabilised an entire region, and is now acting like they're some kind of master of realpolitik because they changed their mind about Brexit, I think mentioning the past that they have bragged about is fair play.

You can mention the past views/behaviour of someone without calling them (and thousands of others) a war criminal. And you've not shown that kebabking's thought the Iraq invasion was a good idea. The fact that he took part doesn't mean that he thought (or does think) that it should have gone ahead, I know some in the armed forces that were involved but thought the whole thing was wrong.

 

[kebabking]

You can mention the past views/behaviour of someone without calling them (and thousands of others) a war criminal. And you've not shown that kebabking's thought the Iraq invasion was a good idea. The fact that he took part doesn't mean that he thought (or does think) that it should have gone ahead, I know some in the armed forces that were involved but thought the whole thing was wrong.

don't worry about it, that Yossarian thinks that i might be devastated by his accusations - and utterly fails to understand the nature of our political system (whatever you may think of it) - makes him about as erudite and observer and participant as pondweed.

 

[Yossarian]

You can mention the past views/behaviour of someone without calling them (and thousands of others) a war criminal. And you've not shown that kebabking's thought the Iraq invasion was a good idea. The fact that he took part doesn't mean that he thought (or does think) that it should have gone ahead, I know some in the armed forces that were involved but thought the whole thing was wrong.

I have no problem at all with enlisted men on either side who took part in that conflict. Officers who followed orders they knew were illegal ... is a question for a different thread.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

I'm not taking any remainer/remoaner/brexit denier stance here. I'm just looking at the mechanics of it & there does not seem to be any solution. The EU will demand so much money for such a period of time that it will cost more than staying in. France/Germany/Holland will not move from this position because without UK money it will be mostly their taxpayers making up the difference which will only strengthen nationalistic political parties in their countries.

The only trade deal that could work would involve staying as we are now. The EU has stated they will not accept UK picking just the good bits of membership for a leaving deal. Norway is in Shengen but still has customs posts on it's borders with Sweden but we don't want customs posts on NI/ROI border.

 

[Yossarian]

don't worry about it, that Yossarian thinks that i might be devastated by his accusations - and utterly fails to understand the nature of our political system (whatever you may think of it) - makes him about as erudite and observer and participant as pondweed.

I don't think you're going to be devastated by anybody's accusations, I don't think you're going to be devastated by what anybody else thinks about anything, those feelings must have been beaten out of you at a public school before you were 12. And then it was time for the officer corps...

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Am I correct in thinking that the main problem with the NI/ROI border is that for locals there is no border, ie local suppliers of both goods & services work on both sides of the border, yes? So for that to continue after brexit we would have to remain in the customs union?

 

[cyril_smear]

we’re heading for a no-deal crash-out with empty shelves, dizzying price inflation and a collapse in public services, rather than a protracted implementation argument,

Yep.

 

[Silas Loom]

Am I correct in thinking that the main problem with the NI/ROI border is that for locals there is no border, ie local suppliers of both goods & services work on both sides of the border, yes? So for that to continue after brexit we would have to remain in the customs union?

Yes. Either the UK does, or NI does - which means some sort of sea border and unionist apoplexy.

 

[DotCommunist]

I think a hard border there is considered unwise due to history and possible futury.

 

[Winot]

I'm not taking any remainer/remoaner/brexit denier stance here. I'm just looking at the mechanics of it & there does not seem to be any solution. The EU will demand so much money for such a period of time that it will cost more than staying in. France/GermanyHolland will not move from this position because without UK money it will be mostly their taxpayers making up the difference which will only strengthen nationalistic political parties in their countries.

The only trade deal that could work would involve staying as we are now. The EU has stated they will not accept UK picking just the good bits of membership for a leaving deal. Norway is in Shengen but still has customs posts on it's borders with Sweden but we don't want customs posts on NI/ROI border.

I agree with all of this. There is no solution that works. So we either have (1) crashing out with no deal; (2) a prolonged messy compromise; or (3) staying in the EU.

(3) is politically unacceptable
(2) is the pragmatic choice
(1) is what we’re heading for

 

[Raheem]

They found being a member of the EU attractive while they were part of it, but soured on it when they found themselves negotiating from outside it?

Where is it that you work, the Department of the Bleeding Obvious?

Civil servants are not, on the whole, negotiating with the EU, though, are they? They're watching the news like the rest of us.

 

[Happy Larry]

You mean this Singapore:

No.

I mean the real Singapore, as described in the Guardian :

The UK can learn a lot from Lee Kuan Yew and Singapore

 

[seventh bullet]

Liberal applause for dictatorship, and?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Liberal applause for dictatorship, and?

They are praising a state which maims people for graffiti. We always knew the guardian is scum, seems Happy Larry is too.

 

[mojo pixy]

The UK should be more like Singapore ffs

 

[Silas Loom]

Boris and Gove's plot to 'hijack' Number 10 exposed | Daily Mail Online

What’s going on at the Heil? They are deploying every stylistic trick they have to paint Johnson and Gove as sinister figures and to mock hard Brexiteers. Interesting repositioning from Dacre.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Perhaps Dacre is worried a hard brexit will make him poorer?

 

[William of Walworth]

Boris and Gove's plot to 'hijack' Number 10 exposed | Daily Mail Online

What’s going on at the Heil? They are deploying every stylistic trick they have to paint Johnson and Gove as sinister figures and to mock hard Brexiteers. Interesting repositioning from Dacre.

Completely contrary to how that link is headlined, the date and time of it being posted online ([Sat] 11th November, 22:03. updated 23:54) suggests the article was due to appear in the Mail On Sunday -- which is significantly less Brexit-fanatical then the Daily Mail?
(I could be wrong here but online articles for any newspaper tend to pop up online the day before the relevant printed edition)

 

[BemusedbyLife]

No.

I mean the real Singapore, as described in the Guardian :

The UK can learn a lot from Lee Kuan Yew and Singapore

We probably couldn't learn much from North Korea, Somalia or Venezuela but for the most part we could learn from how other nations do things and they could learn much from us, the idea that there is a one size fits all approach to nation building is silly, There's much that can be admired about the US and much that makes me think WTF?
Just like people, nations can learn from each others successes and mistakes.
Yes Singapore has achieved a great deal and it has paid a great cost as well, economic growth is very important but it's not all there is to success.

 

[Silas Loom]

Completely contrary to how that link is headlined, the date and time of it being posted online ([Sat] 11th November, 22:03. updated 23:54) suggests the article was due to appear in the Mail On Sunday -- which is significantly less Brexit-fanatical then the Daily Mail?
(I could be wrong here but online articles for any newspaper tend to pop up online the day before the relevant printed edition)

Yes, good point. That difference has been there for a while and the date should have been a giveaway.

 

[Poi E]

I mean, Singapore has given us good food, finance and cheap consumer goods. Used to be some good shipyards there, too. What more do you want?

 

[elbows]

I mean, Singapore has given us good food, finance and cheap consumer goods. Used to be some good shipyards there, too. What more do you want?

Murdoch loves it too, such are the joys.

 

[William of Walworth]

Completely contrary to how that link is headlined, the date and time of it being posted online ([Sat] 11th November, 22:03. updated 23:54) suggests the article was due to appear in the Mail On Sunday -- which is significantly less Brexit-fanatical then the Daily Mail?

Turns out that yes, the Johnson/Gove article was in the Mail on Sunday. I usually avoid it, but I read the article in a left-behind copy of the MoS in the pub. MoS are not nearly as Brexit-crazy as the weekday Mail. In fact that was clearly an article intended at undermining Brexiters in Cabinet.

Nauseatingly pro-May piece though

 

[Happy Larry]

the idea that there is a one size fits all approach to nation building is silly

Er, except that nobody has claimed this. The article in the Guardian merely suggests that we could learn a lot from Singapore. It is way above us in the UN's Human Development Index for reasons that we would do well to take note of.

They are praising a state which maims people for graffiti.

Singaporeans would no doubt smile at your ignorance regarding the meaning of the word "maim". You are perhaps referring to the punishment of caning for serial offences related to defacing buildings. Caning was fairly common in the UK until relatively recently.

 

[krtek a houby]

Er, except that nobody has claimed this. The article in the Guardian merely suggests that we could learn a lot from Singapore. It is way above us in the UN's Human Development Index for reasons that we would do well to take note of.



Singaporeans would no doubt smile at your ignorance regarding the meaning of the word "maim". You are perhaps referring to the punishment of caning for serial offences related to defacing buildings. Caning was fairly common in the UK until relatively recently.

Are you in favor of caning for any offence? Would you like to see it brought back to the UK, post brexit?

 

[Smangus]

The UK should be more like Singapore ffs

Yeah let's ban Durian in public places

 

[krtek a houby]

Be lovely to see a reply this time, Happy Larry instead of the usual drive-by posts.

 

[Supine]

Yeah let's ban Durian in public places

If they grew here we would ban them

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Singaporeans would no doubt smile at your ignorance regarding the meaning of the word "maim". You are perhaps referring to the punishment of caning for serial offences related to defacing buildings. Caning was fairly common in the UK until relatively recently.

Why would they smile, do they not have dictionaries in Singapore?


And quite recently in the UK huh? If talking in geological terms you might be right, other than that you are an ignorant dickhead.