Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[gosub]

Um. She doesn't know what she's talking about. Norway can do independent trade deals because it isn't in the Customs Union, and it payment for involvement in the Single Market is a far cheaper and more transparent system . As she later explains most of the rules are global (and Norway has its own seat at the table). Yes it has freedom of movement but NOT ALL Leave voters worried about that, besides is expecting the EU to undermine one of its central pillars "credible"?

 

[gosub]

The world was already at war when the Bolsheviks seized power.

In fact the Germans laid on a special train to get Lenin back in....it was in their interest. Mind you it was in ours to put a Webley bullet between Rasputin's eyes. Spies bloody get everywhere war or no war

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Um. She doesn't know what she's talking about. Norway can do independent trade deals because it isn't in the Customs Union, and it payment for involvement in the Single is a far cheaper and more transparent system . As she later explains most of the rules are global (and Norway has its own seat at the table). Yes it has freedom of movement but NOT ALL Leave voters worried about that, besides is expecting the EU to undermine one of its central pillars "credible"?

That's what it boils down to really, this entire mess. The Tories have decided that the tautologous platitude 'Brexit means Brexit' means, if nothing else, the end of freedom of movement of people from the EU into the UK. They state repeatedly that this is what the majority of leave voters want, which is probably true (although it wasn't on the ballot paper), but that doesn't make such a view a majority view in the country, and delivering some kind of brexit that maintains freedom of movement wholly or very largely intact would be very possible, but delivering one without it, well, nobody has come up with anything like an idea of how to do that.

 

[Winot]

That's what it boils down to really, this entire mess. The Tories have decided that the tautologous platitude 'Brexit means Brexit' means, if nothing else, the end of freedom of movement of people from the EU into the UK. They state repeatedly that this is what the majority of leave voters want, which is probably true (although it wasn't on the ballot paper), but that doesn't make such a view a majority view in the country, and delivering some kind of brexit that maintains freedom of movement wholly or very largely intact would be very possible, but delivering one without it, well, nobody has come up with anything like an idea of how to do that.

And when/if they end FoM they still won't be able to meet their ridiculous immigration target.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And when/if they end FoM they still won't be able to meet their ridiculous immigration target.

They may do, tbf. Easiest way to reduce immigration is to have a recession in which loads of people lose their jobs.

 

[xarmian]

Theresa May to accept checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland after Brexit in major concession to avoid no-deal

Will the DUP agree to this? If not the Tories need 5 votes from other parties if no Tories rebel. Hoey won't be one of them.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Madeleina Kay #EUsupergirl (@albawhitewolf) on Twitter

Apparently remainers now have their own EU Supergirl, Madeleinea Kay, from Sheffield

Jesus Christ if you are going to hop on the latest remaintwitter vomit inducing craze at least be relevant, Galsworthy has been tweeting about her and her merchandise since 2016

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

APPARENTLY REMAINERS HAVE THEIR OWN FLEGS NOO, IT’S AN EU FLEG IN BLACK AND WHITE WITH A SINGLE BREXITTEAR

 

[Poi E]

Theresa May to accept checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland after Brexit in major concession to avoid no-deal

Will the DUP agree to this? If not the Tories need 5 votes from other parties if no Tories rebel. Hoey won't be one of them.

The DUP are fucked, though, aren't they? Can't risk a vote of no confidence and usher in Labour. I think they'll do what they're told (after another bung to NI.)

 

[Pickman's model]

Jesus Christ if you are going to hop on the latest remaintwitter vomit inducing craze at least be relevant, Galsworthy has been tweeting about her and her merchandise since 2016

Have you met treelover before? That's one of his better posts.

 

[gosub]

Czech and Maltese PMs Call For Second Referendum - (sorry for Stainesing the boards)

Respecting Sovereignty / democracy not particularly high on their agenda then

 

[DotCommunist]

wouldn't even give that one a trial

 

[Pickman's model]

Czech and Maltese PMs Call For Second Referendum - (sorry for Stainesing the boards)

Respecting Sovereignty / democracy not particularly high on their agenda then

Whereas the UK has a proud record of respecting democracy and sovereignty?



Catch yourself on

 

[andysays]

wouldn't even give that one a trial

You're having a falcon laugh...

 

[Chz]

Czech and Maltese PMs Call For Second Referendum - (sorry for Stainesing the boards)

Respecting Sovereignty / democracy not particularly high on their agenda then

The first, sure. Anti-diplomatic, don't meddle in the internal affairs of another country, especially when you're no angels.
But the second? Calling for a free and fair vote on something is hardly fascist. The electorate changes its mind all the time, or we wouldn't bother with elections in the first place. Where does this notion that another referendum is anti-democratic come from? A lot has changed - particularly in the information available to the public - since then. Not to say that it's worth the time and effort, or that the outcome would be any different, but really? Anti-democratic?

 

[gosub]

The first, sure. Anti-diplomatic, don't meddle in the internal affairs of another country, especially when you're no angels.
But the second? Calling for a free and fair vote on something is hardly fascist. The electorate changes its mind all the time, or we wouldn't bother with elections in the first place. Where does this notion that another referendum is anti-democratic come from? A lot has changed - particularly in the information available to the public - since then. Not to say that it's worth the time and effort, or that the outcome would be any different, but really? Anti-democratic?

I'm fucked off with the way UK political establishment has gone about things, but this is not the first plebiscite EU has gone: 'didn't like that result, we'll do fuck all and wait for you to come back into line.....Kinda undermines any notion that the EU can be reformed from within.

 

[kabbes]

^^I actually agree with both those positions, confusingly.

 

[kebabking]

to be strictly fair, having heard the interviews, both FM's were talking in that regretful, wistful manner - both those countries are deeply saddened to see the UK leave the EU, and both think they will have a harder time of it without the UK holding the EU structures and the larger, much more 'project' orientated member states back.

it was much more 'i wish it hadn't come to this, wouldn't it be nice if someone waved a magic wand' stuff than the 'wrong answer, try again' stuff the commission and the Macron/Merkel club come out with.

 

[gosub]

it was much more 'i wish it hadn't come to this, wouldn't it be nice if someone waved a magic wand' stuff than the 'wrong answer, try again' stuff the commission and the Macron/Merkel club come out with.

Roughly what the bailiffs said when they seized ownership of the Greek airports......Its come to this because of the mantra of Ever Closer Union has steam rollered belittled and smeared everything that has stood in its way for the last 30 years.

 

[billbond]

The first, sure. Anti-diplomatic, don't meddle in the internal affairs of another country, especially when you're no angels.
But the second? Calling for a free and fair vote on something is hardly fascist. The electorate changes its mind all the time, or we wouldn't bother with elections in the first place. Where does this notion that another referendum is anti-democratic come from? A lot has changed - particularly in the information available to the public - since then. Not to say that it's worth the time and effort, or that the outcome would be any different, but really? Anti-democratic?

Yes 100% anti democratic

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Does anyone believe that we'd be discussing a second vote if Remain had won?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Does anyone believe that we'd be discussing a second vote if Remain had won?

What if remain had won by a gnat's bollock and then been caught cheating?

Still probably no tbf. But I do love this stuff about a second referendum being 100% anti-democratic as if everything up to this point has been entirely unproblematic and above board. The whole entire shitshow is anti-democratic. Another vote would just be an opportunity for yet more fuckery from all concerned. It would be an excercise in throwing good votes after bad.

 

[teuchter]

Does anyone believe that we'd be discussing a second vote if Remain had won?

As a consequence of no-one being able to agree what 'remain' means, and massive complications arising from implementing it?

No I don't think we'd be discussing another vote.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

As a consequence of no-one being able to agree what 'remain' means, and massive complications arising from implementing it?

No I don't think we'd be discussing another vote.

As a consequence of the fact that apparently nobody knew what they were voting for and that there is now lots of new information.

 

[kabbes]

Does anyone believe that we'd be discussing a second vote if Remain had won?

Does anybody believe we wouldn’t?

Farage and co weren’t going to just shut up, were they? Particularly at 48/52

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Does anyone believe that we'd be discussing a second vote if Remain had won?

I doubt it, although all the issues that were being agitated pre-vote would still be being agitated, so who knows? People are discussing a second referendum in Scotland despite the fact that 'no change' won last time, and by a larger margin than Brexit.

Thing about this referendum (and Scottish 'independence' would have suffered from exactly the same problem) is that 'how you do it', and even what 'it' might be exactly, wasn't on the ballot paper.

 

[gosub]

Does anyone believe that we'd be discussing a second vote if Remain had won?

Sort of. In the alternative time stream: around about now the next treaty would be being signed, that we now, by law, would have a referendum on....One of the reasons why we had the referendum, if the referendum on that had been the first then it would have been an uphill struggle from the proEU lot to have won it, and they would have had to repeat what they did when France voted down the Constitution

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Does anybody believe we wouldn’t?

Farage and co weren’t going to just shut up, were they? Particularly at 48/52

I'm sure people would be pushing for it, as they have since we joined the common market.

The only reason the referendum happened was so that Cameron could resolve some in-fighting in the Tories.

If Remain had won everyone would just be told to get back in their box and accept the result.

 

[Winot]

Does anyone believe that we'd be discussing a second vote if Remain had won?

Third vote. Remain won fair and square in 1975.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm sure people would be pushing for it, as they have since we joined the common market.

The only reason the referendum happened was so that Cameron could resolve some in-fighting in the Tories.

If Remain had won everyone would just be told to get back in their box and accept the result.

You think the pro-brexit tories would have done that? He might have told them to do it, but what authority did he have/would he have had if the vote had gone narrowly the other way?