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Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Will we have a brexit?


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I agree that this is what I am saying.
If it is not the leave voters, or the politicians the leave voters voted in who have to sort out the problems, then who is it down to?
The remain voters, the EU, the ROI?
You appear to believe we have a direct democracy. Voters, whether remain or leave, will by and large not be "sorting out the problems" of the process.

(Unless they belong to the tiny minority of voters who are members of the government benches, or perhaps opposition members who are members of relevant select committees).
 
If brexit voters knew what they were voting for would that not include knowing how the process would be carried out, or at least if it is possible to do it at all?
Voters wouldn't vote for the country to introduce personal teleportation because they know it can't be delivered. If voters voted for brexit my assumption is they had an idea how it would be done and how it can be delivered.
Hence my enquiry of brexit voters about a solid practical issue, the Irish border.
What seems to have happened is a collective washing of hands by saying we don't need to know how to get what we voted for, that it is up to the government. Then there is a frenzy of looking for somewhere to place the blame when government fails and they can't get something that they don't know if it is possible to get at all.
Does this not appear to be rather absurd?
Urban may have spent the last two years discussing how bad the EU is, now we have reached the time when the discussion should be about how the UK solves brexit, but that discussion seems elusive here.
 
The man-child vents… "Trump lets rip":
Dh70V19WsAAmxt_.jpg:small
 
British people are not allowed to make decisions about their future in case Irish people decide to kill each other in petulance.
I think this should be printed on a t-shirt, which kabbes then wears during a tour of Ireland, perhaps on a penny-farthing, stopping in at pubs and suchlike to chat to locals. This is made into a light hearted film or TV series, a bit like the one with that guy who hitch hiked around the island with a fridge.
 
I think this should be printed on a t-shirt, which kabbes then wears during a tour of Ireland, perhaps on a penny-farthing, stopping in at pubs and suchlike to chat to locals. This is made into a light hearted film or TV series, a bit like the one with that guy who hitch hiked around the island with a fridge.
Have you gone Irish-Border-happy n all?
 
What seems to have happened is a collective washing of hands by saying we don't need to know how to get what we voted for, that it is up to the government.
Interesting that you should take what I said and then claim it was in reply to a different set of circumstances. That's really quite dishonest of you. I wonder if you know you did it.

I did not say people "don't need to know how to get what they voted for". Nor did I imply any "washing of hands".

I was replying to your repeated demand that voters "sort it out". This is where the absurdity lies. Your constant refrain that voters get involved in delivering the negotiations. You know very well that your demand is absurd.

You are absolutely entitled to criticise the performance of the government on these matters. But their dismal performance does not mean that leave voters are able to get involved in the negotiations.

I take it you've voted before? You're aware that politicians then go off and do their own thing, aren't you?


Does this not appear to be rather absurd?
Something that nobody has said interpreted in a way nobody implied. Look absurdity!
 
I think this should be printed on a t-shirt, which kabbes then wears during a tour of Ireland, perhaps on a penny-farthing, stopping in at pubs and suchlike to chat to locals. This is made into a light hearted film or TV series, a bit like the one with that guy who hitch hiked around the island with a fridge.
It's an interesting idea, but I think it would work better with philosophical wearing the t-shirt, given that it's essentially his position.

I don't really care where he goes, though a tour of the areas of Britain with the highest support for Brexit would probably make for the most entertaining TV.
 
British people are not allowed to make decisions about their future in case Irish people decide to kill each other in petulance.

Just out of interest, in the 2011 census the areas with the highest amount of self identifying "British" people were all London boroughs:

Harrow 41.6
Tower Hamlets 40.6
Brent 40.5
Redbridge 39.7
Newham 39.4
 
Interesting that you should take what I said and then claim it was in reply to a different set of circumstances. That's really quite dishonest of you. I wonder if you know you did it.

I did not say people "don't need to know how to get what they voted for". Nor did I imply any "washing of hands".

I was replying to your repeated demand that voters "sort it out". This is where the absurdity lies. Your constant refrain that voters get involved in delivering the negotiations. You know very well that your demand is absurd.

You are absolutely entitled to criticise the performance of the government on these matters. But their dismal performance does not mean that leave voters are able to get involved in the negotiations.

I take it you've voted before? You're aware that politicians then go off and do their own thing, aren't you?



Something that nobody has said interpreted in a way nobody implied. Look absurdity!

I have not made the claim you attribute to me in my reply.
I took the thrust of your point to be about whether we live in a 'direct democracy' (whatever that quite means), and I attempted to suggest that when voters vote for something they should have an idea whether that something is possible and how.
I don't think voters vote without context, in a vacuum as it were, yay or naying a series of random propositions with no consideration of how they might happen.
In the context of brexit now that the practical issues are at the forefront (some Tory on question time last night talked about contingency regarding mobile power stations in Northern Ireland to deal with a practical possibility) the brexitors who claim they knew what they were voting for might like to suggest some ideas, reveal the secrets of you like.
My washing of hands comment is because brexit voters are frequently saying the detail is down to the government and nothing to do with me guv. The government many voters elected as well as 'electing brexit'. This stuff is everything to do with voters in my view, whether it is a 'direct democracy' or some kind of round the houses democracy.
I am aware that when elected politicians go off and do their own thing, but general elections come around regularly and politicians can be voted out. Brexit wasn't an election of politicians, it was the election of a practical process which is supposed to be forever in its consequences and I believe that makes it different.
 
It's an interesting idea, but I think it would work better with philosophical wearing the t-shirt, given that it's essentially his position.

I don't really care where he goes, though a tour of the areas of Britain with the highest support for Brexit would probably make for the most entertaining TV.

It is not my position though is it?
I have not said that British voters are not allowed to make decisions about their future in case Irish people kill each other out of petulance at any point.
If you interpret that to be my position you're wrong.
 
It's an interesting idea, but I think it would work better with philosophical wearing the t-shirt, given that it's essentially his position.

I don't really care where he goes, though a tour of the areas of Britain with the highest support for Brexit would probably make for the most entertaining TV.

It is not my position though is it?
I have not said that 'British voters are not allowed to make decisions about their future in case Irish people kill each other out of petulance' at any point.
If you interpret that to be my position you're wrong.
 
I have not made the claim you attribute to me in my reply.
You have repeatedly said that leave voters should sort it out. I can quote the posts if you wish. If you say that this does not mean getting involved in the negotiations (which is what needs to be sorted, since that is where we're at with Brexit), then you need to explain i) precisely what you think needs to be sorted by voters and ii) how they should sort it.

I took the thrust of your point to be about whether we live in a 'direct democracy' (whatever that quite means),
It was a response to your repeated demand for voters to sort it. Direct democracy is when the electorate is directly involved in the "sorting". The usual example is ancient Athens (although obviously slaves, women, etc were not counted). You seemed to imagine we had this instead of a representative democracy, which if you have read Edmund Burke you'll know does not allow for MPs to be seen even as delegates, but as people we empower to get on with it.

and I attempted to suggest that when voters vote for something they should have an idea whether that something is possible and how.
What is the point of this observation, though? Is it a version of the new liberal orthodoxy that only experts should be allowed to vote? That the electorate was not competent? That they did not read up on constitutional law before voting? If that's not what you're implying, then be specific. What does your observation mean in practical terms, since you seem to be demanding practicality.

Surely this is not the "sorting"? Are you expecting people to jump in a time machine and point out to the Leave Campaign the various governmental mishaps since the referendum? Of course you're not. So what?

I don't think voters vote without context
Please enlighten us as to what you think the context in 2016 was.

I am aware that when elected politicians go off and do their own thing, but general elections come around regularly and politicians can be voted out.
Yes, but there is no general election on the horizon. So now what?
 
You can post it as many times as you like, for all the good it will do. You haven't used those exact words, but that is the clear implication of your posts, taken as a whole.
You are simply wrong. It is not the clear implication of my posts taken as a whole.
The British can vote on whatever future they like with no regard to the 'petulant' Irish, what the British people would then have to come to terms with is the consequences of their vote.
My posts taken individually or as a whole do not state of imply what you say they do, you are wrong.
 
The same way it works everywhere else in the world, of course.


No I didn’t. Not even close.
My apologies, you said a few years of a hard border may focus thinking, you did not say it was a good idea, you were suggesting soething. I read you srong.
The hard border you seem to suggest works in the same way globally but I am not sure if does.
There are 'Beijing's wall type scenarios, there are geographical features, there are heavy fortification indeed quite a variety of hard borders.
Given the length of the Irish border, and the number of crossing points, how would the hard border you envisage work?
 
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