Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[DotCommunist]

He doesn't give a shit about the issues anyway, this is literally a fallback position. 'All leavers are racist' having mysteriously lacked any legs as a valid opinion to share for discussion

 

[gentlegreen]

Six out of seven MPs voted to hold the referendum.
What the feck were they snorting ?

 

[philosophical]

No, I'm not saying that.

But I will say now, in case there's any doubt, that I think you're behaving like a silly twit who is desperate to apportion some sort of blame for something which you don't like on millions of people here on this thread and elsewhere who had the effontary to vote for something they wanted.

You're going to ever more ridiculous lengths and making yourself look like a greater and greater prick, even to many who voted to Remain, but if you want to carry on in this way, be my guest.

It is easier to insult a poster than to sustain an argument, I understand that, it is a feature of the internet.

 

[philosophical]

What are your solutions for getting rid of the Eu migrant camps that you voted for ?

If I could I would have wanted to have open borders everywhere. However isn't that an academic question now that the UK is leaving?

 

[philosophical]

They have a vote every 4 or 5 years.

You’re the one talking about “political will” for unification and the ROI staying in the EU. Political will implies people have a vote.

I am saying that article six in the Belfast Agreement alludes to political will for unification. It needs the OK from communities both sides of the 'border'. Such an issue has not (yet) been voted on.
Brexit is an issue that has been voted on.

 

[Pickman's model]

I am saying that article six in the Belfast Agreement alludes to political will for unification. It needs the OK from communities both sides of the 'border'. Such an issue has not (yet) been voted on.
Brexit is an issue that has been voted on.

Was there a referendum on the gfa?

 

[sealion]

However isn't that an academic question now that the UK is leaving?

You voted to remain, you voted for migrant camps, where are your solutions for this mess ?

 

[philosophical]

Word.

I voted remain basically because I couldn’t face the short-medium term quagmire that was inevitable from Brexit — the very thing he is harping on about — but I still think philosophical is the biggest prick on this issue I’ve yet come across. Facing up to practical problems doesn’t mean things are impossible and the problems don’t mean things shouldn’t be done if people want them done.

Fine, you can call me a prick for harping on about the practical problems. You say those practical problems aren't impossible, fine too. So do you have any workable and practical suggestions for sorting the Irish border? Something you want done?
The way I see it, any declaration that somehow it needs to be a united country sometimes in the future is all very well, but the practical problems are in the here and now staring people in the face.
It irritates you and many that I constantly pose the question perhaps it is less because I am a prick and so on, but maybe what is going on is that people are frustrated with themselves because they simply can't answer.
It is not even supposed to be some kind of internet point scoring exercise, I find it interesting because to me the discussion is about the nature of democracy, in that voting is linked to something, and in brexit it is linked in such a stark way.

 

[philosophical]

He doesn't give a shit about the issues anyway, this is literally a fallback position. 'All leavers are racist' having mysteriously lacked any legs as a valid opinion to share for discussion

If you are referring to me, then you are wrong in your opinion about what I do or do not give a shit about.

 

[philosophical]

Was there a referendum on the gfa?

20 years ago I believe.

 

[Pickman's model]

20 years ago I believe.

Yeh. So this issue, the border issue, has been consulted on. There was a simultaneous vote in the 26 cos which removed the former articles 2 & 3. There may not have been subsequent votes in the light of the 23.6.16 referendum. But nonetheless the issue has been voted on.

 

[philosophical]

You voted to remain, you voted for migrant camps, where are your solutions for this mess ?

You might have missed the last couple of years, but I can no longer influence the political solutions within the EU, what is left to me is to try to influence my MP and to support charity work where I can.
How about you?

 

[philosophical]

Yeh. So this issue, the border issue, has been consulted on.

Depends what you mean by consulted.

 

[Pickman's model]

Depends what you mean by consulted.

Not at all. It depends what the British and free state governments meant when they held the votes. What I mean matters by contrast not a jot.

 

[sealion]

but I can no longer influence the political solutions within the EU

It may come as a surprise to you, but you never could. Now, what are your solutions for these migrant camps you voted for ? It's up to you as a remain voter to forward some solutions, according to your logic.

 

[philosophical]

Yeh. So this issue, the border issue, has been consulted on. There was a simultaneous vote in the 26 cos which removed the former articles 2 & 3. There may not have been subsequent votes in the light of the 23.6.16 referendum. But nonetheless the issue has been voted on.

Great.
Errm
Are you making a point of some kind?

 

[philosophical]

It may come as a surprise to you, but you never could. Now, what are your solutions for these migrant camps you voted for ? It's up to you as a remain voter to forward some solutions, according to your logic.

I think you're wrong on your first point, and I have already answered you second one.

 

[Pickman's model]

Great.
Errm
Are you making a point of some kind?

Yes, you're wrong to say the border issue has not been voted on

 

[sealion]

and I have already answered you second one.

Not good enough. I want solutions and i want them now. Come on old wise one, you've come here with demands and got replies. What's your solution ?

 

[kabbes]

Fine, you can call me a prick for harping on about the practical problems. You say those practical problems aren't impossible, fine too. So do you have any workable and practical suggestions for sorting the Irish border? Something you want done?
The way I see it, any declaration that somehow it needs to be a united country sometimes in the future is all very well, but the practical problems are in the here and now staring people in the face.
It irritates you and many that I constantly pose the question perhaps it is less because I am a prick and so on, but maybe what is going on is that people are frustrated with themselves because they simply can't answer.
It is not even supposed to be some kind of internet point scoring exercise, I find it interesting because to me the discussion is about the nature of democracy, in that voting is linked to something, and in brexit it is linked in such a stark way.

If a hard border is imposed, the world will keep turning. The default is therefore a workable solution. Or a customs union may be agreed, which is also workable. If you prefer an alternative solution, now’s the time to make it happen. Otherwise one of those defaults will come about.

But we’ve said all this at least half a dozen times already. You don’t actually care about anything but the chance to play Chicken Little. Hence prick.

The way I see it, a few years of hard border may also yet change a few minds in Ireland about what is workable and what isn’t. Decisions are never writ in stone. Solutions emerge. Only a prick would say nothing is allowed to change unless perfection is achieved from day 1.

 

[philosophical]

Yes, you're wrong to say the border issue has not been voted on

I should have been more precise. The post brexit border has not been voted on by the people of the ROI.

 

[philosophical]

Not good enough. I want solutions and i want them now. Come on old wise one, you've come here with demands and got replies. What's your solution ?

I have replied. Open borders.
As a practical solution now we try to gather resources to help the emergency.
Your solution is...?

 

[andysays]

I have replied. Open borders.
As a practical solution now we try to gather resources to help the emergency.
Your solution is...?

I'm sure I'm not the only one to have noticed that despite dismissing out of hand the solution of a united Ireland as impossible, your suggested solution to the imposition of Fortress Europe and the EU sponsored migrant camps is open borders, presumably meaning between the EU and the rest of the world or at least a substantial part of it.

Whether or not this is a desirable aim, in terms of its practical achievability it seems considerably less likely as a political reality than a united Ireland.

 

[gosub]

He doesn't give a shit about the issues anyway, this is literally a fallback position. 'All leavers are racist' having mysteriously lacked any legs as a valid opinion to share for discussion

Why mysteriously.? Urban is hardly a hotbed of racism} So when a sizeable contingent here supported Brexit it would at least 'curtious' to consider that other motivations are available

 

[philosophical]

If a hard border is imposed, the world will keep turning. The default is therefore a workable solution. Or a customs union may be agreed, which is also workable. If you prefer an alternative solution, now’s the time to make it happen. Otherwise one of those defaults will come about.

But we’ve said all this at least half a dozen times already. You don’t actually care about anything but the chance to play Chicken Little. Hence prick.

The way I see it, a few years of hard border may also yet change a few minds in Ireland about what is workable and what isn’t. Decisions are never writ in stone. Solutions emerge. Only a prick would say nothing is allowed to change unless perfection is achieved from day 1.

I had to look up Chicken Little, a story I'm not familiar with, but it seems to involve somebody who tells others the sky is falling in.
I have said that a hard border is a 'risk', if you see that as scaremongering paranoia then I think you are wrong. I can also assure you that you are wrong in your assessment in what I care or don't care about.

The hard Irish border you allude to will indeed not stop the world from turning, indeed I would hope that it doesn't stop the world turning for any individual as a result of any new sectarian trouble.

However seeing as you allude to a hard border, even if for only a few years, would you care to outline what form that might take in practical terms, or is that something you would prefer to leave to others?

When you say decisions are never writ in stone, solutions emerge, are you saying in that that decisions are therefore reversed? In relation to brexit are we not still waiting for solutions to emerge, yet are up against the clock? If solutions are not reached in time do you see that as a 'not writ in stone' moment, when brexit is abandoned because of the practicalities?

Perhaps the brexit decision is so writ in stone that one of the default positions you suggest, a hard border or a customs union of sorts, must happen.
Great if there remains complete free movement of people and goods on the island as now, not great if there is as yet an undescribed hard border.
I would suggest that a customs union means no brexit, and these years of argument will have been for nothing, and those who voted leave will not have been betrayed by anybody, but will simply have to default to reality.

You season your responses with insults which is quite entertaining, but isn't 'prick' getting a little repetitive? Perhaps you could be a little more creative and colourful in your insults.

 

[philosophical]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to have noticed that despite dismissing out of hand the solution of a united Ireland as impossible, your suggested solution to the imposition of Fortress Europe and the EU sponsored migrant camps is open borders, presumably meaning between the EU and the rest of the world or at least a substantial part of it.

Whether or not this is a desirable aim, in terms of its practical achievability it seems considerably less likely as a political reality than a united Ireland.

You are probably right, but the EU is a more distant problem right now, but brexit is more close at hand.
Errm, can you quote me where I dismissed out of hand that a united Ireland would be impossible?

 

[Pickman's model]

I should have been more precise. The post brexit border has not been voted on by the people of the ROI.

It will be just where the current border, the border that's been there since the 1920s, is

 

[gentlegreen]

It will be just where the current border, the border that's been there since the 1920s, is

All 275 of them

 

[andysays]

You are probably right, but the EU is a more distant problem right now, but brexit is more close at hand.
Errm, can you quote me where I dismissed out of hand that a united Ireland would be impossible?

Not for those in the migrant camps or drowning in the Mediterranean it isn't.

I don't need to go back and find the quote, there are plenty of others here who I'm sure will have no trouble remembering what you said, even if you've conveniently forgotten.

 

[philosophical]

Not for those in the migrant camps or drowning in the Mediterranean it isn't.

I don't need to go back and find the quote, there are plenty of others here who I'm sure will have no trouble remembering what you said, even if you've conveniently forgotten.

What I said about what?

Sorry, edit, I think you mean that I actually said that a United Ireland was an impossibility. Which I did not.
If I am right good luck to you and your acolytes in trawling back, it will not be a very fruitful search.