Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[HoratioCuthbert]

How are any of my posts saying no one is ever allowed to leave an institution?
What I have been asking is what happens in Ireland after departure.

You refuse to acknowledge. that it’s the EU, not the U.K. who are insisting on a hard border. Why must it necessarily be so because the U.K. voted to leave? WAnd in order to fight this, you seem to think spending all day on here asking us to come up with solutions is going to help.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Apparently one FBPE supporter on Twitter, 'Brexit Bin' had this to say, ffs.

"Leavers falls into 7 categories: “Racist, xenophobes, the economically illiterate, the generally illiterate, the criminally gullible, those who don’t know who the EU works, billionaires with offshore tax havens to protect."

Economically illiterate people standing side by side with billionaire tax haven bods. Remainers are somewhere in between presumably, reasonably economically literate?

 

[teuchter]

You want me to speak for all of us?

Nope, I just asked for your view.

It seems perfectly possible to leave the institution, if that's all that matters, and maintain a soft border. I don't see that the EU is 'imposing' a hard border simply because we are leaving the institution.

 

[philosophical]

You refuse to acknowledge. that it’s the EU, not the U.K. who are insisting on a hard border. Why must it necessarily be so because the U.K. voted to leave? WAnd in order to fight this, you seem to think spending all day on here asking us to come up with solutions is going to help.

No, it is the UK that is insisting on a hard border by leaving.

What are you suggesting, that the UK leaves but stays?

You seem to refuse to acknowledge that by leaving something that previously it was part of, there would be a border between the UK and everywhere else, certainly the EU (which as I said the UK is leaving) and by dint of that the ROI (which is not leaving).
Maybe you believe the EU will unilaterally set up a hard border, but if it didn't the UK wouldn't bother, and therefore would not have regained control of (all of) it's borders.

So for example if the UK established strict standards on livestock, much stricter than the EU, the UK would still allow 'lesser' livestock to be either transported, or wander, across the border from the EU to the UK unchecked?

I don't know why you complain that I mention the border, the issue of the land border in Ireland encapsulates so much of brexit, even if it as stark as leaving/staying as on the voting slip, or even if it is part of the melee and nuances of so called negotiations.

Incidentally I have no desire to help, I voted remain and that battle was lost, I don't want a peoples vote, I don't want another referendum. I am waiting for those who voted brexit to demonstrate they know what they're doing and how to do it.

if I am castigated for asking the question it is a convenient diversion from coming up with answers.

You may also have voted remain for all I know, but the 52% who voted leave are still, more than two years on, with probably only a limited number of options to choose from, still unable to solve the 'take back control' issue of the Irish border.

 

[DexterTCN]

Champion of the EU and leader of ALDE arguing in favour of concentration camps set up in developing countries.

Truly the migrants friend.

I'm sure the tories and their recent injection of ukip voters will be a great friend to them. I'm sure brexit will be just great for migrants.

You didn't vote in the referendum though, did you?

 

[redsquirrel]

I'm sure the tories and their recent injection of ukip voters will be a great friend to them. I'm sure brexit will be just great for migrants.

No one has made any such claim. But it has been claimed that (1) to have voted Leave is anti-immigrant and (2) that the EU is progressive regarding immigration.

You didn't vote in the referendum though, did you?

The lateness with which I received my postal vote probably means that my vote wasn't counted but I returned it with a Leave vote.

 

[DexterTCN]

No one has made any such claim. But it has been claimed that (1) to have voted Leave is anti-immigrant and (2) that the EU is progressive regarding immigration.

The lateness with which I received my postal vote probably means that my vote wasn't counted but I returned it with a Leave vote.

But you keep going on about migrants. How does brexit help them? Or how do you think it may help them in the longer term?

 

[redsquirrel]

How does brexit help them? Or how do you think it may help them in the longer term?

You might as easily ask the same question about remaining in the EU. How would not leaving the EU help migrants?

But as myself, danny (here) and others have pointed out the question is at best useless and at worst politically regressive. Both the UK and EU governments (and the Scottish one for that matter) are the enemies for those of us with class politics, that won't change with Britain being in or out of the EU.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

You might as easily ask the same question about remaining in the EU. How would not leaving the EU help migrants?

But as myself, danny (here) and others have pointed out the question is at best useless and at worst politically regressive. Both the UK and EU governments (and the Scottish one for that matter) are the enemies for those of us with class politics, that won't change with Britain being in or out of the EU.

This. And neither will it change if Scotland leaves the union, which we all talked about in 2014, but discussion on that level seems to have been forgotten now.

 

[Poi E]

Glory days, the end of the Union. Imagine the good done to the world to shrink this bastard militarist state of fantasists and murderers.

edit: first coffee of the morning rant post.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

But you keep going on about migrants. How does brexit help them? Or how do you think it may help them in the longer term?

At worst it will have no effect whatsoever, however if the EU ends up having to revert to old trade style agreement- something which has become more likely since we voted leave- then I can’t see how they would be shelling out as much money to beef up the border in Turkey and elsewhere. Pre 1990 there was a relatively lower number of migrant deaths for those trying to reach Europe. Since 2000 there’s been around 30,000 deaths. As an example from 2015 to 2016 migrant deaths in the Mediterranean Sea increased by 35 per cent. This is largely due to the money EU is shelling out on beefing up borders and boats intercepting people traffickers and IIRC even rescuers. How can the answer to this problem be a stronger EU? Weaken the fuck out of it. I’m thinking decades down the line,

Glory days, the end of the Union. Imagine the good done to the world to shrink this bastard militarist state of fantasists and murderers.

Wellllll even Mhairi Black has been boasting that the SNP has a nice grown up defence policy these days just like the other parties.

Post nightshift, I’ve gone hardline. Bedtime I think

 

[Poi E]

I hope the SNP do have a credible defence policy designed around Scotland. Shit load of resources up there and a grasping state on your edge.

 

[Pickman's model]

I hope the SNP do have a credible defence policy designed around Scotland. Shit load of resources up there and a grasping state on your edge.

They'll just station their forces on the north side of what will become known as sturgeon's wall

 

[Poi E]

Not much a threat from rump UK's navy, I suppose.

I want to see armed peace activists rise up and take Faslane.

 

[Poi E]

Ranting on some more, I see May was hailing BAE providing know-how so the Aussies can build some Type 28 Frigates in their yards. I suppose it shows the ultimate service economy, where industry is seen as a success even if it is (i) a global company (ii) not doing much of the work in the UK and (iii) really just doing an IP-licensing deal.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ranting on some more, I see May was hailing BAE providing know-how so the Aussies can build some Type 28 Frigates in their yards. I suppose it shows the ultimate service economy, where industry is seen as a success even if it is (i) a global company (ii) not doing much of the work in the UK and (iii) really just doing an IP-licensing deal.

What happened to types 1 through 27?

 

[Poi E]

It's like the motorways. Some just never went anywhere and the numbers got lost. I probably got the number wrong.

 

[DexterTCN]

You might as easily ask the same question about remaining in the EU. How would not leaving the EU help migrants?

But as myself, danny (here) and others have pointed out the question is at best useless and at worst politically regressive. Both the UK and EU governments (and the Scottish one for that matter) are the enemies for those of us with class politics, that won't change with Britain being in or out of the EU.

How would not leaving the EU help migrants? Because it stops the fucking tories from not having to take a share of them most likely.

There's an utter denial of a distinct underlying racism in a large part of the brexit movement whether you and your mates like it or not.

 

[mojo pixy]

What happened to types 1 through 27?

Most were prototypes or not built at all. The one before type 26 (the one Poi E probably means) was/is type 23. And as far as I recall, the ones actually built before 23, 22 and 21 were the type 12s.

Ah nerdery. Lovely.

 

[Pickman's model]

But you keep going on about migrants. How does brexit help them? Or how do you think it may help them in the longer term?

It will encourage liberals to leave the uk

 

[redsquirrel]

How would not leaving the EU help migrants? Because it stops the fucking tories from not having to take a share of them most likely.

How? The recent conference has just re-affimired the opposition within large sections of the EU to any "quota sharing", while re-emphasising support for more offshore detention camps. And you're assuming the quote sharing idea is necessarily progressive.

There's an utter denial of a distinct underlying racism in a large part of the brexit movement whether you and your mates like it or not.

Where? What do you mean by "brexit movement"?

Myself, butchers, danny, J Ed etc have not denied the racism of the UK goverments' and political parties immigration policies, indeed we've been at pains to extend such an analysis. There have been numerous people, both on this thread and in general, denying the racism of the EU's policies though.

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[Pickman's model]

Who is James O'brien and why should I give a flying fuck about his opinion?

 

[kebabking]

Ranting on some more, I see May was hailing BAE providing know-how so the Aussies can build some Type 28 Frigates in their yards. I suppose it shows the ultimate service economy, where industry is seen as a success even if it is (i) a global company (ii) not doing much of the work in the UK and (iii) really just doing an IP-licensing deal.

the MOD, for it is the MOD who owns the T26 design, will get a rather nice cut, the engines and power systems are Rolls Royce, and hundreds of UK companies who have designed componants to fit the T26 design will get additional orders to put their gadgets in the Australian ships - the Australians will build them, the hull and superstructure will be built of Australian steel, but most of the rest of the ship will come from the UK. the Australians have opted for a US radar and fire control system, as well as missile and gun systems - the Aegis System - however thats quite reasonable given that they want to use the T26 for the Anti-Air Warfare role, rather than the Anti-Submarine Warfare/GP role that the T26 will fullfil in the Royal Navy.

its also quite possible that the T26 will win the current Canadian Navy procurement competition - if it does, and its assumed by the other bidders - it may well mean that the T26 build for the RN will be extended: the original requirement was for 13 ships, but in 2015 the government reduced that to 8, with the gap made up by a new class of cheaper, less capable general purpose frigates called the Type 31E, the E being for export, however its looking like the T26 will be a better export success than the T31E, and with the free money coming to the MOD from the Australian and Canadian (possibly) licences, the money might be there to go back to the original 13 T26.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Who is James O'brien and why should I give a flying fuck about his opinion?

Pompous windbag off some local radio station. Loves berating leave voters, without ever providing any sort of rationale for how this is likely to help.

 

[billbond]

oboring , a complete and utter wanker

smug slimy piece of shit

 

[billbond]

How would not leaving the EU help migrants? Because it stops the fucking tories from not having to take a share of them most likely.

There's an utter denial of a distinct underlying racism in a large part of the brexit movement whether you and your mates like it or not.

Rubbish

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Who is James O'brien and why should I give a flying fuck about his opinion?

Do you mind on the guy that kept shouting I THOUGHT YOU WANTED PARLIAMENT TO BE SOVEREIGN over and over at a leave voter on a talk show because of that one time Parliament was gonna vote on whether to trigger article 50 or not. No James, he wanted to leave the EU primarily.

 

[billbond]

I think he is heading for a breakdown if he carries on like he does.
One of my relatives worked on the show for a while and she said near all the people on their hate him with a passion.
Got the sack from Newsnight, another champagne socialist.
Always used to be slagging Corbyn off as well.

 

[DotCommunist]

some local radio station

this is a good burn