Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Pickman's model]

You can’t keep dragging up history though, that’d be like having a pop at the Germans cos of the war...

I was reading this afternoon how in 1898 the UK made an alliance with Germany. How different things might have been.

 

[Mrs D]

I my view you are looking at it from the opposite direction to me.
The UK voted brexit, so it is the UK who is imposing a border by leaving.
The question remains how does the UK intend to do that.

There was already a border before the Brexit vote. Those who are in favour of no border have had many years in which to extinguish the border by arranging for NI to become part of Ireland, but they have failed. Perhaps now they can seek to remove Ireland from the EU so it can join a customs union with the UK.

 

[treelover]

The Left Against Brexit | Another Europe is Possible

In today's Britain, the dice is still firmly loaded in favour of the rich and powerful. Tory Brexit will only exacerbate inequality.

But project reality is now firmly here. The nine-month countdown to 29 March, 2019 divorce day is underway. Our movement is upping its game.



Join The Left Against Brexit tour now
This summer, we will be touring the country to make the case against Tory Brexit - and for a future of workers' unity and international solidarity. We're using this tour to plan a strategy for our movement, and we need you to be there.

The first 5 dates have been announced - and you need to get your tickets before they run out.

1. In Manchester on July 5th - get your tickets here.
2. In London on July 11th - get your tickets here.
3. In Bristol on July 26th - get your tickets here.
4. In Nottingham on July 30th - get your tickets here.
5. In Birmingham on July 31st - get your tickets here.

And events are being planned across the country - stay tuned to hear more.

You can read more from me here.

Manuel

TESSA Union Boss Launches 'Left Against Brexit', going nationwide soon.

 

[kebabking]

The Left Against Brexit | Another Europe is Possible







TESSA Union Boss Launches 'Left Against Brexit', going nationwide soon.

is this not 3 years too late?

 

[philosophical]

It is the EU that imposes the borders, the massive fence between the EU and Serbia was built against the wishes of non-EU Serbia by the EU state of Hungry, using forced prison labour, (We♥EU).

And it is the EU that is insisting on dividing the island of Ireland unless the UK submits to the EU's will.

The UK has stated explicitly that they will not impose a hard border.

So it is up to those who support the EU to come up with a workable solution to this issue.

I simply disagree. It is the 'will' of the UK to leave the EU isn't it? So I can't see how any submission by the UK is being demanded.

Incidentally I realise their are different currencies, and some demand by the whole island to regulate for health and hygiene purposes agricultural related imports from the rest of the UK and elsewhere, but I wouldn't describe that as a soft border particularly. Would you not agree that any border beyond that which exists is a 'hard' border. I don't see what difference there is between a 'soft', a 'hard' or a 'frictionless as possible' border. A border is a border.

The repeated explicit declaration of the UK is what exactly? That brexit means that all kinds of everything can flow into the UK unchecked in any way?

 

[treelover]

is this not 3 years too late?

Not a fan of some its leading lights, they live in an another world.

 

[philosophical]

By using an asterisk you undermine any claim not to be what you refuse to spell

I see it as being polite, you see it differently.

 

[philosophical]

There was already a border before the Brexit vote. Those who are in favour of no border have had many years in which to extinguish the border by arranging for NI to become part of Ireland, but they have failed. Perhaps now they can seek to remove Ireland from the EU so it can join a customs union with the UK.

I doubt that the ROI would dance to the UK tune and leave the EU because of the UK brexit in which they were simply observers.
The nature of the border changed when both countries joined the EU at the same time, and it further changed because of the GFA

 

[Pickman's model]

Not a fan of some its leading lights, they live in an another world.

That's the thing with this second referendum bit, regardless of the pros and cons the people fronting the demand are clueless wankers who have no real answer to the simple question 'why?'

 

[kebabking]

...Would you not agree that any border beyond that which exists is a 'hard' border. I don't see what difference there is between a 'soft', a 'hard' or a 'frictionless as possible' border. A border is a border.

are you completely witless?

have you not travelled between England and Scotland? same currency, but different tax rates, differing legal system, different laws - but the very definition of a soft border.

 

[philosophical]

are you completely witless?

have you not travelled between England and Scotland? same currency, but different tax rates, differing legal system, different laws - but the very definition of a soft border.

What point are you making? That there is something called a soft border between England and Scotland because of tax rates and laws (there has always been different legal systems).
So using that analogy you might as well say there exists a 'soft border' between Lewisham and Bromley because of different council tax rates and local by-laws.

 

[Poi E]

Sums up the devolved powers pretty well.

 

[DexterTCN]

are you completely witless?

have you not travelled between England and Scotland? same currency, but different tax rates, differing legal system, different laws - but the very definition of a soft border.

They're both in the EU.

 

[sleaterkinney]

are you completely witless?

have you not travelled between England and Scotland? same currency, but different tax rates, differing legal system, different laws - but the very definition of a soft border.

With free movement though.

 

[yield]

They're both in the EU.

With free movement though.

The Act of Union between England and Scotland predates the EU by quite some time.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I simply disagree. It is the 'will' of the UK to leave the EU isn't it? So I can't see how any submission by the UK is being demanded.

Incidentally I realise their are different currencies, and some demand by the whole island to regulate for health and hygiene purposes agricultural related imports from the rest of the UK and elsewhere, but I wouldn't describe that as a soft border particularly. Would you not agree that any border beyond that which exists is a 'hard' border. I don't see what difference there is between a 'soft', a 'hard' or a 'frictionless as possible' border. A border is a border.

The repeated explicit declaration of the UK is what exactly? That brexit means that all kinds of everything can flow into the UK unchecked in any way?

No. The cunts are the people that caused this but now refuse to take responsibility for it or attempt to come up with a viable solution, sitting on their arses demanding everyone else fix their shit.

And no-one ever mentioned a border between NI/ROI. That's not where a border would be.

So basically you guys are saying no one is ever allowed to leave an institution that is younger than a lot of people alive today, and if they do the institution can’t be held responsible for anything it does after.
And this is why we should never leave, and anyone that wants to leave is a cunt? Oh Dexter, I hope you aren’t too prominent within the Yes movement because we don’t need folk like you leading this stuff, fucking hell.

 

[treelover]

Apparently one FBPE supporter on Twitter, 'Brexit Bin' had this to say, ffs.

"Leavers falls into 7 categories: “Racist, xenophobes, the economically illiterate, the generally illiterate, the criminally gullible, those who don’t know who the EU works, billionaires with offshore tax havens to protect."

 

[teuchter]

So basically you guys are saying no one is ever allowed to leave an institution that is younger than a lot of people alive today, and if they do the institution can’t be held responsible for anything it does after.
And this is why we should never leave, and anyone that wants to leave is a cunt? Oh Dexter, I hope you aren’t too prominent within the Yes movement because we don’t need folk like you leading this stuff, fucking hell.

Is it your view that when people voted for Brexit, they generally only wanted to leave the institution, rather than to see anything change in terms of who and what was allowed to pass across the UK's borders?

 

[pocketscience]

Is it your view that when people voted for Brexit, they generally only wanted to leave the institution, rather than to see anything change in terms of who and what was allowed to pass across the UK's borders?

I reckon it was the exclusive factor, seeing as that was the only question on the ballot.
I don't recall any campaign for a referendum to change the UKs borders pre 2016.

 

[philosophical]

So basically you guys are saying no one is ever allowed to leave an institution that is younger than a lot of people alive today, and if they do the institution can’t be held responsible for anything it does after.
And this is why we should never leave, and anyone that wants to leave is a cunt? Oh Dexter, I hope you aren’t too prominent within the Yes movement because we don’t need folk like you leading this stuff, fucking hell.

How are any of my posts saying no one is ever allowed to leave an institution?
What I have been asking is what happens in Ireland after departure.

 

[yield]

Apparently one FBPE supporter on Twitter, 'Brexit Bin' had this to say, ffs.

"Leavers falls into 7 categories: “Racist, xenophobes, the economically illiterate, the generally illiterate, the criminally gullible, those who don’t know who the EU works, billionaires with offshore tax havens to protect."

Or maybe they believe that a supranational EU elite pursuing neoliberal policies aren't better for the majority of people.

The financial crisis happened ten effing years ago. What have we seen? Falling incomes in real terms. Rising costs of rent, food, fuel and other essentials.

Not understanding what is going on is just willful ignorance.

 

[Poi E]

I don't recall any campaign for a referendum to change the UKs borders pre 2016.

2014?

 

[Supine]

Apparently one FBPE supporter on Twitter, 'Brexit Bin' had this to say, ffs.

"Leavers falls into 7 categories: “Racist, xenophobes, the economically illiterate, the generally illiterate, the criminally gullible, those who don’t know who the EU works, billionaires with offshore tax havens to protect."

#8 lexiteers who believe leaving will somehow overthrow the state and lead to a downfall in capitalism
#9 fishermen who want to catch more fish

The list would be massive.

 

[andysays]

Apparently one FBPE supporter on Twitter, 'Brexit Bin' had this to say, ffs.

"Leavers falls into 7 categories: “Racist, xenophobes, the economically illiterate, the generally illiterate, the criminally gullible, those who don’t know who the EU works, billionaires with offshore tax havens to protect."

Personally, I come into all seven

 

[redsquirrel]

Champion of the EU and leader of ALDE arguing in favour of concentration camps set up in developing countries.

One suggestion is “regional disembarkation platforms” in north Africa, under the auspices of the United Nations refugee agency (UNHCR) and the International Organisation for Migration. These platforms could allow rapid processing to distinguish between economic migrants and those in need of international protection, while reducing the incentive to embark on perilous journeys in the hands of people-traffickers.

These proposals have already been met with scepticism, but if combined with a revision of the Dublin regime and a system of “burden-sharing” between EU countries, they could go some way to ensuring asylum seekers can apply directly to EU countries for asylum, rather than paying traffickers to risk their lives at sea, which surely must be one of our objectives.

Truly the migrants friend.

 

[Supine]

Interesting article about the way referendums should be held.

Take it from the Swiss: the Brexit referendum wasn't legitimate

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I know it’s twitter but brief run down of what Merkel has had to say post EU summit:

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I think that’s in order but if it isn’t f all I can do about it, school run!

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

#8 lexiteers who believe leaving will somehow overthrow the state and lead to a downfall in capitalism
#9 fishermen who want to catch more fish

The list would be massive.

I don’t anyone really ever said number 8, but the dent it’s put in the Tories etc surpass my wildest dreams

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Is it your view that when people voted for Brexit, they generally only wanted to leave the institution, rather than to see anything change in terms of who and what was allowed to pass across the UK's borders?

You want me to speak for all of us?

In fact I’m ignoring that question, it’s just another wee dig really. Next....