Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[JimW]

I don't see it that way - and didn't say I did. JIT supply is just a way to manage inventory levels. Genuinely interested to know why you think that is a bad thing.

It's an important point as leaving EU means all manufacturing companies that rely on a global supply chain will look to leave the UK. And this will result in job losses which can't be a good thing.

Well from my point of view you shouldn't start out with what best suits transnational capital on your mind or your politics will never leave the current framework. There will always be negative consequences to a genuine attempt to redress the social order; either you say the game's not worth the candle and accept what an increasingly remote technocracy gives you or you try to set your own agenda.

 

[DotCommunist]

read something the other day talking about the ability of the state to deliver a (however very!)limited set of democratic representation to it voters is eroding faster and faster. I mean, its only been around for 100 years in its current form (the vote) but still. Made me think of the EU and the reff's getting repeated, italy told how to vote , technocrats not democrats etc etc.

rambling

 

[JimW]

read something the other day talking about the ability of the state to deliver a (however very!)limited set of democratic representation to it voters is eroding faster and faster. I mean, its only been around for 100 years in its current form (the vote) but still. Made me think of the EU and the reff's getting repeated, italy told how to vote , technocrats not democrats etc etc.

rambling

Seen this put in various ways, one saying just because popular democracy and industrial capitalism developed in broadly the same time and place theyve been assumed to be inextricable but if places like China show you can have latter without former then we can guess where we're headed.

 

[Poi E]

You can't see beyond the prism of class. But that's irrelevant.

Ban/bullet surely? Comrade is showing some liberal tendencies.

 

[not-bono-ever]

hmm

i have heard that we are now heading for a face off and hardish brexit- source is usually right and very well connected ( saddam husseins WMD weapons stash briefing excluded - and i do bring that up at every opportunity)

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

hmm

i have heard that we are now heading for a face off and hardish brexit- source is usually right and very well connected ( saddam husseins WMD weapons stash briefing excluded - and i do bring that up at every opportunity)

Of course we are, there really can’t be any other option, Mayhem should just tell ‘em to do one and get on with it.

There will be no deal from the EU.

 

[toblerone3]

I don't think Fortress Europe is a valid reason for leaving the EU because the Fortress Britain that comes as part of the package of Brexit is likely to be worse than Fortress Europe. The right-wingers who voted for Brexit were not voting as a protest against Fortress Europe. They were voting as a protest that EU border area policies were not not strong enough. Add onto this a layer of xenophobia over Eastern Europeans. I believe that any border that attempts to be porous to a trade in goods and capital but tries to block the flow of people is immoral both in a human rights context but also in the way that it preserves the whip hand for Capital over workers.

I understand the short term reasons for these policies in terms of protecting welfare states in developed countries, and also, to an extent, the very concept of a nation state.

But in the long run the incoherent policies of Free trade in goods and capital, but no free flow of labour, will fail and there is no transition plan to Open Borders. The EU hasn't got a coherent policy on this and Britain on its own wont have one. If there is a path to a solution of these problems, I believe that is likely to be a multilateral one. Britain turning its back on Europe is not likely to lead to any good solutions on this.

I am very much influenced by Sorious Samura in this.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

All you need to add in there is something about a Seat at the Table and it’s perfect.

 

[Yossarian]

If the Remain campaign had tried to scare people with fake front pages supposedly from 2 years after the Brexit vote, they might have looked something like this.

 

[Pickman's model]

If the Remain campaign had tried to scare people with fake front pages supposedly from 2 years after the Brexit vote, they might have looked something like this.

View attachment 138657

I find the fun fruit picking thing terrifying

 

[Pickman's model]

All you need to add in there is something about a Seat at the Table and it’s perfect.

It's a short step from a seat to an arse

 

[andysays]

I find the fun fruit picking thing terrifying

Picking fruit in the hot sun,
I fought the Job Centre and the Job Centre won...

*Awaits avalanche of fruit-related puns*

 

[mojo pixy]

Orange you glad to be working 12-hour days six days a week? lolnot

 

[DexterTCN]

.

 

[2hats]

Apropos of which...

Brexit Head Aviation Negotiator Job Only Just Advertised By Government

As soon as the EU referendum result was announced almost two years ago, Britain’s airlines urged immediate action to safeguard the “open skies” agreement in Europe. However, the key role of “head of aviation EU exit negotiations” has only just been advertised. No experience of the airline business is necessary.

Air tickets typically go on sale almost a year ahead of departure. With no certainty about whether the current liberal aviation rules will continue after Brexit, airlines are selling flights from the UK to European Union airports which they may not be able to operate from 30 March 2019 onwards.

In addition, the UK has yet to negotiate a post-Brexit deal on transatlantic flights – which are presently governed by an EU-US treaty.

Looking like climate emissions targets are going to be easier to meet next year.

 

[Pickman's model]

Apropos of which...

Brexit Head Aviation Negotiator Job Only Just Advertised By Government


Looking like climate emissions targets are going to be easier to meet next year.

Paris airports will be busier

 

[Supine]

If the Remain campaign had tried to scare people with fake front pages supposedly from 2 years after the Brexit vote, they might have looked something like this.

View attachment 138657

124,000 jobs going. So much for Labour and their jobs first brexit

 

[andysays]

Orange you glad to be working 12-hour days six days a week? lolnot

Not planning to appley for a fruit picking job then?

 

[not-bono-ever]

My hazy memories of fruit picking seem to be entirely fun free

 

[toblerone3]

All you need to add in there is something about a Seat at the Table and it’s perfect.

Its not about control and the apocryphal smoke-filled rooms its about looking at a positive freer vision for the people movement around the world and a fairer world economy and not thinking we need to lock ourselves away in a dark Brexit hellhole to get there.

 

[danny la rouge]

I don't think Fortress Europe is a valid reason for leaving the EU because the Fortress Britain that comes as part of the package of Brexit is likely to be worse than Fortress Europe.

This is what I was talking about. This is what bores me.

The criticism of the EU you are responding to is that it is "funding border countries, made a notorious deal with Turkey trading humans, keeps many migrants in defacto prisons and even provides boats for border countries. That's not inaction. That's criminal activity." And your response is "the EU isn't as bad as the non-EU UK might become". Sorry, but that's not a response.

The criticism is "the EU itself has done nothing but strengthen human smugglers and traffickers in the name of 'fighting human trafficking' which is Orwellian code for 'let them drown in the sea or die in border countries'". And your response is "that's not a reason to leave the EU".

Well, here's the thing. The UK is leaving the EU. That debate ended two years ago. You thinking that the reply to every criticism of the EU is still "that's still not a reason to leave the EU" is entirely missing the point. It's not all about you. You and the Tory Brexiteers standing face to face with floppy slapping hands is not the entirety of politics.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is what I was talking about. This is what bores me.

The criticism of the EU you are responding to is that it is "funding border countries, made a notorious deal with Turkey trading humans, keeps many migrants in defacto prisons and even provides boats for border countries. That's not inaction. That's criminal activity." And your response is "the EU isn't as bad as the non-EU UK might become". Sorry, but that's not a response.

The criticism is "the EU itself has done nothing but strengthen human smugglers and traffickers in the name of 'fighting human trafficking' which is Orwellian code for 'let them drown in the sea or die in border countries'". And your response is "that's not a reason to leave the EU".

Well, here's the thing. The UK is leaving the EU. That debate ended two years ago. You thinking that the reply to every criticism of the EU is still "that's still not a reason to leave the EU" is entirely missing the point. It's not all about you. You and the Tory Brexiteers standing face to face with floppy slapping hands is not the entirety of politics.

You say floppy slapping hands, I say effete and ineffectual

 

[teuchter]

Thread can be closed now then

 

[Pickman's model]

Its not about control and the apocryphal smoke-filled rooms its about looking at a positive freer vision for the people movement around the world and a fairer world economy and not thinking we need to lock ourselves away in a dark Brexit hellhole to get there.

The smoke filled rooms proverbial not apocryphal. Say what you like about the eu or hmg but pls don't so mutilate the English language.

 

[danny la rouge]

You say floppy slapping hands, I say effete and ineffectual

Either way, the picture is of people drowning and shouting for help and those on the shore replying "but Boris and Farage" *flop, flop, slap*.

 

[gentlegreen]

We can be certain that in the 21st century, there are no smoke-filled rooms in the EU.

 

[danny la rouge]

Thread can be closed now then

What, you think May's game plan is to get to March next year and say, "we tried but it can't be done"?

Don't be daft.

 

[Winot]

Either way, the picture is of people drowning and shouting for help and those on the shore replying "but Boris and Farage" *flop, flop, slap*.

Danny - do you think the UK will be better placed to help those people from outside the EU or is it mainly a point of (understandable) principle that you simply do not want to be part of a club that has those policies?

 

[danny la rouge]

Danny - do you think the UK will be better placed to help those people from outside the EU or is it mainly a point of (understandable) principle that you simply do not want to be part of a club that has those policies?

What has happened is that everything is now being seen through that polarising prism I was bemoaning on the last page. That you are asking this question two years on, honestly and sincerely I have no doubt, is evidence of that.

However, for the record, I voted Remain.

 

[Winot]

What has happened is that everything is now being seen through that polarising prism I was bemoaning on the last page. That you are asking this question two years on, honestly and sincerely I have no doubt, is evidence of that.

However, for the record, I voted Remain.

It’s being seen through that prism on this thread because this is the Brexit thread...