Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[JimW]

What day-to-day actions are you taking that will protect, say, skilled manufacturing jobs that rely on complex just-in-time supply chains?

Surely be better to be taking actions that render those supply chains obsolete.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Surely be better to be taking actions that render those supply chains obsolete.

What would those look like?

 

[redsquirrel]

What day-to-day actions are you taking that will protect, say, skilled manufacturing jobs that rely on complex just-in-time supply chains?

I'm not going to get into a silly pissing contest about what I have or haven't done (how the hell are you going to know the truth anyway) but there are plenty of actions that people can, and do, take to fight for working class power in their communities and workplaces. Taking strike action, being active in a union, getting involved in a residents association, trying to organise to keep local services open etc etc

 

[JimW]

What would those look like?

Have a flick through any number of history books to see the many and varied ways working class people have organised to improve their material circumstances and resist the impositions of capital.
I realise you're hammering a 'realpolitik' point but it's almost never your best interest, certainly not as a goal.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

I'm not going to get into a silly pissing contest about what I have or haven't done (how the hell are you going to know the truth anyway) but their are plenty of actions that people can, and do, take to fight for working class power in their communities and workplaces. Taking strike action, being active in a union, getting involved in a residents association, trying to organise to keep local services open etc etc

My main gig these days is helping run a community centre. In my previous life I was involved in unionising a large financial services workplace, just so you know where I'm coming from. I'm not the enemy here.

Much of the energy of left activists I see is wasted energy - there's so much internal infighting at all levels - battles about ideological purity and ego. I'm sure you know this. The trouble is there's a rough beast slouching towards Bethlehem right now, and we're going to need the centrist dads and the melts and god knows who else onside to try and stop it.

Yes, I've had a drink.

 

[teqniq]

This.

 

[redsquirrel]

The trouble is there's a rough beast slouching towards Bethlehem right now, and we're going to need the centrist dads and the melts and god knows who else onside to try and stop it.

But what is that rough beast? It's not ideological purity to point out that the rough beast is not Britain leaving the UK but capitalism (in particular neo-liberalism), that the 'right now' goes back the last 30+ years nor that the EU is a key component of this 'rough beast'.

Nor is it ideological purity to recognise the fundamental political differences between socialism, social democracy and liberalism. That doesn't preclude one from working with 'centrist dads' on specific actions but it is both foolish and ahistorical not to see the break between the politics of liberal(-left) and the socialist left.

 

[Supine]

Surely be better to be taking actions that render those supply chains obsolete.

Yeah, let's all drive Austin allegro's or walk to work. New phone? Nah, the revolution got rid of those things

 

[JimW]

Yeah, let's all drive Austin allegro's or walk to work. New phone? Nah, the revolution got rid of those things

Operative word was just-in-time supply. Christ knows why you think that's the sole supplier of innovation.

 

[Mr Moose]

Why is any comparison needed? Does that fact that things could be worse justify the EUs treatment of the refugees? That line of argument justifies any behaviour, including Trumps.

You still can't see beyond Leave or Remain. But that's irrelevant, the point is that the EU is currently constructing a border policy that is attacking the working class both internally or externally. Whether people voted Leave or Remain, whether they think the UK will be better off in the EU or outside is beside the point.

I don’t think making a comparison does justify those policies or those attacks. I think that’s what the Leave vote does. It says make it a fortress or this thing falls apart.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I mean this is the type of crap that undermines Cadwalladr's credibility and shows her politics

(my emphasis). I wasn't aware we were at war on Russia in 2016.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Have we moved on to the imminent revolution now?

 

[danny la rouge]

This thread is boring. But then mainstream political discourse these days is boring. It's all stuck in a loop that didn't reflect any real world reality in the first place.

The Brexit referendum presented what was on paper a binary choice as the solution to a debate that wasn't a binary debate. In the end people didn't really vote on the questions that were on the ballot paper, because that's not really what the debate was about.

Now, according to liberal remainers, if you voted leave it was about racism or in aid of racism, completely ignoring the EU policy towards migrants from outwith its borders.

I can't get onboard with that kind of wilful blinkeredness. The more these people chunter on the further removed I feel from their concerns and their objectives. Their world is not relevant to mine. Their interests are not mine.

Neither, of course, is the worldview the Tory leavers in my interests.

So the polarisation of this debate into two camps that mean nothing to me leaves me and countless others on the sidelines watching two teams who don't represent me slap each other with floppy hands. And we're told there's only two teams and we have to pick one. Fuck them both.

It wasn't long after the vote that I began to wish I'd abstained. But I'm coming to the conclusion that I wish I'd actively campaigned for an abstentionist position. Maybe a vocal abstentionist campaign then would have reminded the public discourse now that there's another world out here beyond the Telegraph or the Guardian.

But it's too late now, and public discourse is stuck in a referendum debate that passed me by in the first place.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Short thread. “Inaction at this point would be an improvement.” Quite.




[Q

 

[danny la rouge]

Not going to click onto Twitter to read a Twitter thread, but I approve of the sentiment I can see in the embedded tweet.

 

[Pickman's model]

(my emphasis). I wasn't aware we were at war on Russia in 2016.

we have always been at war with eurasia

 

[teqniq]

danny la rouge As I said upthread, I abstained by spoiling my ballot paper. I would be interested to know how many people did the same, rather than not actually bothering to turn up at the polling station.

 

[teqniq]

Not going to click onto Twitter to read a Twitter thread, but I approve of the sentiment I can see in the embedded tweet.

It links directly to the letter in the Graun.

 

[danny la rouge]

It links directly to the letter in the Graun.

Cheers.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

It links directly to the letter in the Graun.

Depends which bit of the box you press, avoid that shit rag by desperately prodding Ayoub’s text

 

[teqniq]

Depends which bit of the box you press, avoid that shit rag by desperately prodding Ayoub’s text

Their 'coverage' of the Labour live event was so transparent as to be laughable so I take your point, but the letter is worth a read.

 

[JimW]

I can never read embedded tweets but can't be arsed to get a VPN so I can. Always appreciate a screenshot instead but realise not everyone is set up to do that easily

 

[Yossarian]

I can never read embedded tweets but can't be arsed to get a VPN so I can. Always appreciate a screenshot instead but realise not everyone is set up to do that easily

 

[teqniq]

I can never read embedded tweets but can't be arsed to get a VPN so I can. Always appreciate a screenshot instead but realise not everyone is set up to do that easily

direct linky to letter

EU inaction over Mediterranean migrants is criminal | Letters

 

[JimW]

Cheers folks!

 

[JimW]

Is Penard the letter-writer being circumspect due to having to collaborate with EU agencies rather than really thinking it's mere inaction?

 

[teqniq]

Is Penard the letter-writer being circumspect due to having to collaborate with EU agencies rather than really thinking it's mere inaction?

Possibly circumspect I think. As you will have seen he touches on the issue of Libya but has nothing to say about Turkey or the situation in Greece. I would think it nigh on impossible though that someone in his position would be unaware, in any event Joey Ayoub is not having any truck with 'inaction'.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I mean this is the type of crap that undermines Cadwalladr's credibility and shows her politics
(my emphasis). I wasn't aware we were at war on Russia in 2016.

There's a difference between 'hostile nation' and 'nation we're at war with'. Russia being hostile in general terms doesn't seem that controversial to me.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I am going to wager that we are going for a hard acrimonious brexit here. the moral and intellectual failings of our government will manifest in a fuck up of huge proportions. As Danny said, the path we are heading is a drawn out scuffle between sides I have no connection with. Wish I had abstained or whatevs.

 

[Supine]

Operative word was just-in-time supply. Christ knows why you think that's the sole supplier of innovation.

I don't see it that way - and didn't say I did. JIT supply is just a way to manage inventory levels. Genuinely interested to know why you think that is a bad thing.

It's an important point as leaving EU means all manufacturing companies that rely on a global supply chain will look to leave the UK. And this will result in job losses which can't be a good thing.