Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[DotCommunist]

And amusingly I get lectured on decency and proper behaviour from those same hypocrites.

amusingly I mocked the idea of moderated bourgeois politeness some people do that fails in concealing the naked hatreds of the working class you are willing to put on display. This went far over your head, three times no less. I did later ask you to treat people as you wish to be treated and so far thats going as expected.

 

[DotCommunist]

and its cheesy beans on a buttered spud

 

[philosophical]

amusingly I mocked the idea of moderated bourgeois politeness some people do that fails in concealing the naked hatreds of the working class you are willing to put on display. This went far over your head, three times no less. I did later ask you to treat people as you wish to be treated and so far thats going as expected.

Naked hatred of the working class? Why was it only the working class that voted brexit then?

 

[DotCommunist]

Why was it only the working class that voted brexit then?

they are lowly tumultuous men, they who hath no stake in the kingdom, aroused by base passions and easily led. You should pay them no heed except to pity them as befits your station as judge.

 

[philosophical]

Personally I don't think the working class are lowly as the character quoted does.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Why was it only the working class that voted brexit then?

The kingdom was lost for want of a comma.

 

[philosophical]

The kingdom was lost for want of a comma.

Yeah, well spotted.
Too late for me to edit now and I wish I hadn't overlooked it.

 

[David Clapson]

How did this thread put on another 25 pages since Sunday? Madness.

France24 news was filming a Brexit story in Brixton today. They're also filming in Boston, Lincs, where the Brexit vote was the winningest. There's a sort of twinning arrangement with Brixton now - coach parties to and forth to learn about the 'other'. France24 will be back if anyone wants to spout about Brexit to the French. You can contact them via the B£.

 

[Wilf]

How did this thread put on another 25 pages since Sunday? Madness.

This thread had better not stop now, I've been up all night working out a solution to the Irish border. Downloaded some software, did all the modelling and everything. Who do I send it to?

 

[DotCommunist]

This thread had better not stop now, I've been up all night working out a solution to the Irish border. Downloaded some software, did all the modelling and everything. Who do I send it to?

The boys, obvs

 

[DexterTCN]

Brexit impasse: Ireland has boxed itself in on Border issue

The unpleasant truth is that for Brexiteers, economic damage to Northern Ireland and some undermining of the Belfast Agreement was a price worth paying to get to their promised land of a UK outside the EU

 

[kabbes]

Well if the Irish Times says it, it must be true, since they are the font of all knowledge for what was in the heads of 17 million people when they voted to leave the EU.

 

[philosophical]

Brexit impasse: Ireland has boxed itself in on Border issue

I suppose the Irish Times is much more up close and personal to the issue, than the arms length brexiters who are trying to blag it.
The 17 million people who voted to leave the EU won.
They have had a long time now to come up with a solution but haven't, and it seems to me that there is general distain and contempt towards those asking them to outline their solution, probably because the questions are too difficult to answer.

 

[DexterTCN]

I suppose the Irish Times is much more up close and personal to the issue, than the arms length brexiters who are trying to blag it.
The 17 million people who voted to leave the EU won.
They have had a long time now to come up with a solution but haven't, and it seems to me that there is general distain and contempt towards those asking them to outline their solution, probably because the questions are too difficult to answer.

It's strange. There's a fair number with Irish links on urban. They've had very little to say, if anything, on this thread. It wasn't that long ago some were demanding people read books on Irish history.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well if the Irish Times says it, it must be true, since they are the font of all knowledge for what was in the heads of 17 million people when they voted to leave the EU.

Did you read the article or just glance at the pull-out quote? When they say 'Brexiteers' here they are very clearly talking about politicians, not voters.

 

[kabbes]

Did you read the article or just glance at the pull-out quote? When they say 'Brexiteers' here they are very clearly talking about politicians, not voters.

I’m talking about what Dexter chose to quote context-free.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I’m talking about what Dexter chose to quote context-free.

And getting it wrong.

Fuck me the quality of debate on both sides on this thread had been dismal.

 

[kabbes]

And getting it wrong.

Fuck me the quality of debate on both sides on this thread had been dismal.

You assert that it is wrong, but the article does not say that it is talking about the UK government's Brexit-supporting MPs when it makes that statement. Yes, the first part of the article is criticising the UK goverment's approach to the issue generally. But that's the government as a whole, whether it is ideologically Brexit or not. The statement about "Brexiteers", which occurs after a subheading where the theme is being more widely developed, strongly implies that it is talking about people in the UK that support Brexit. There is nothing to particularly suggest it just means the likes of Rees-Mogg. When that statement is made, it is the first use of the word "Brexiteer" in the article. Up until that point, it had repeatedly referred to the UK government's actions by referring to it as the UK government.

 

[SpookyFrank]

This thread had better not stop now, I've been up all night working out a solution to the Irish border. Downloaded some software, did all the modelling and everything. Who do I send it to?

Don't send it to the government's 'sensible ideas' dpeartment, it's just a fax machine connected to a shredder.

 

[DexterTCN]

I’m talking about what Dexter chose to quote context-free.

I posted a link to the article so it wasn't context free, you're really quite underhand at times.

 

[Wilf]

Don't send it to the government's 'sensible ideas' dpeartment, it's just a fax machine connected to a shredder.

Oh contraire! A few years ago I thought it would be a good idea if the Highway Agencies allowed motorists to ring in if there were traffic cones out and no roadworks being done. Got a Knighthood out of that one (though I'm pretty certain it was Fred Goodwin's old gong they recycled ).

 

[MickiQ]

This thread had better not stop now, I've been up all night working out a solution to the Irish border. Downloaded some software, did all the modelling and everything. Who do I send it to?

You're probably taking the problem more seriously than Boris, glad to see someone is

 

[kabbes]

I posted a link to the article so it wasn't context free, you're really quite underhand at times.

Since the article is about something really quite different to the quote you pulled out of it, what was the context you were seeking to create by pulling out that quote in particular?

 

[andysays]

I posted a link to the article so it wasn't context free, you're really quite underhand at times.

So what do you think about what the article says? Do you have an opinion on possible outcomes or solutions to the position we find ourselves in?

And a separate question to anyone who might be able to fill me in on the general position of the Irish Times, including towards the EU and possible reunification.

 

[andysays]

I suppose the Irish Times is much more up close and personal to the issue, than the arms length brexiters who are trying to blag it.
The 17 million people who voted to leave the EU won.
They have had a long time now to come up with a solution but haven't, and it seems to me that there is general distain and contempt towards those asking them to outline their solution, probably because the questions are too difficult to answer.

There have been potential solutions suggested on this thread, both before and since you rolled up, including that as a majority in NI who voted wanted to remain in the EU, the people of NI be offered the opportunity for Irish reunification.

You may not like this suggested solution, but to deny it's been made is simply dishonest.

ETA edited for clarification

 

[Pickman's model]

It's strange. There's a fair number with Irish links on urban. They've had very little to say, if anything, on this thread. It wasn't that long ago some were demanding people read books on Irish history.

yeh. i'm just demanding you read books. it would be a start.

 

[philosophical]

The use of language by the Irish Times and others confuses matters.
There is talk of hard and soft brexit, hard, soft and 'frictionless' borders.
Any kind of brexit is going to be hard, certainly hard to do, and a border is a border.

This bit chimes:

'If the UK is to leave the single market, customs union and jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice then EU law and World Trade Organisation rules mean that border checks between EU states (including Ireland) and the UK are unavoidable.

The British government has not been honest about this, but is now boxed in by its own dishonesty. After centuries of being the big player in a bilateral relationship with Ireland, the British government appears to have assumed that it could get away with making reassuring noises about not wanting “a return to the borders of the past” but then brushing aside Irish protests if such a promise got in the way of their desire for a meaningful Brexit.'

 

[Pickman's model]

a border is a border.

please could you eschew the mayism

 

[kabbes]

Yes, there is no doubt that the British government is utterly shit, clueless and flailing around in a totally hopeless manner on the whole topic. I doubt you will find many here to disagree with that.

 

[philosophical]

There have been potential solutions suggested on this thread, both before and since you rolled up, including that as a majority in NI who voted wanted to remainin the EU, they be offered the opportunity to do so as part of Eire.

You may not like this suggested solution, but to deny it's been made is simply dishonest.

Citizens of Northers Ireland already are entitled to have both British and Irish passports. I believe as a consequence of the Good Friday Agreement.
If the suggestion you have outlined is offered what are people supposed to do in reality? Those who wish to remain scoop up their Irish passports and decamp south?
It may be a suggestion, but I don't see it as a workable solution, and if it has been suggested by anybody serious it is disingenuous. The dramatic scenario would be brexit Northern Irish turning on their neighbours and saying 'if you don't like it, go back to your own country, you have the passport, you have the opportunity'.
I don't see what you have outlined as any kind of potential solution, unless someone posted it here as an obvious joke or non runner.
Incidentally I am consistently urging a workable and practical solution, and you may assume I am in denial, but I have yet to read on here anything that would be workable or practical.