Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Threshers_Flail]

The European Union, as an entity, is a poisonous, anti-democratic neoliberal bosses' club that claims to work for the betterment for everybody involved but mostly does the opposite - they're heartless cunts who would cheerfully let Greeks starve if they can't make debt payments, and want to create a Fortress Europe where refugees end up enslaved in Libya or somewhere before they can get anywhere near a European country. It's better to fuck them off now while the chance is there and hold out the hope of creating something better - and if it doesn't work, at least it's a kick in the balls to the existing order, and one which might open up more opportunities to change things.

I wouldn't have voted for it because I think a Brexit led by the Conservative Party is a pile of shit that is only going to make things shittier than they were before, but I don't see anything particularly hard to grasp about the Brexit - and Lexit - point of view.

20 months since the referendum campaign and I've never managed to put it so brilliantly.

Fuck em.

 

[philosophical]

I voted leave, my parents and wider family are Irish. There is no hate here for the Irish.

And I travel on an Irish passport, my brother lives in Ballycasey, my family from Rath Luric, and I voted remain to keep that connection strong.
In my view the disregard for the Irish land border issue is something that has arisen from ignorance and anti-Irish downright racism. Hence my opening 'assumption' question.

 

[philosophical]

Are they all racists as well then ?

Possibly the ones who voted brexit are.

 

[rubbershoes]

Do you/did you vote Lib Dem, @philosophical?

I don't see that is relevant to anything other than feeding your prejudices

 

[ddraig]

I don't see that is relevant to anything other than feeding your prejudices

it's relevant to their posting style and goal post moving

 

[philosophical]

Do you/did you vote Lib Dem, @philosophical?

No. My son was the first tranche of students paying the £9000 fee, which shamed me because I got my education free. Also those who regard Education as utilitarian, and all about employment and earnings I regard as ignorant too. I would never, and have never voted Liberal.

 

[philosophical]

I don't remember the Irish border coming up that often in the pre-Brexit debates, it was like everybody assumed there was some basic level of competence involved.

Anyway, there are a lot of very smart people here making good cases for Brexit, many of them have been made on this thread already, if you treat people with a bit of respect they might talk to you about it, if you call everybody ignorant racists then they probably won't.

It took a nanosecond for those smart people to 'cunt' me off, and judge me, and tell me to fuck off, so maybe my assumption about ignorance and racism isn't far off the mark.

 

[stethoscope]

I don't see that is relevant to anything other than feeding your prejudices

Lol.

 

[philosophical]

This confused old gentleman's (who should maybe think about laying off the sunday lunchtime pints) ill-informed vitriol disgusting smears and illogical evidence free attempts at argument strike me as simply being the less polite version of what many of the more prolific anti-brexit posters on this thread have put forward.

butchersapron, you are the person who enquired if I was a 'saville loving paedo', so perhaps you might like to reflect on 'disgusting smears' and ill informed vitriol.

 

[philosophical]

Regarding the French referendum



On the introduction of the Euro





Democratic deficit in the European Union - Wikipedia

Wake up.

That Junker quote does not back up your assertion.
Ahem, House of Lords, Eton, Oxford Westminster, first past the post, Monarchy...perhaps you need to wake up.

 

[butchersapron]

butchersapron, you are the person who enquired if I was a 'saville loving paedo', so perhaps you might like to reflect on 'disgusting smears' and ill informed vitriol.

The point of such enquiry passing you by unperceived of course. Did someone else write your first few posts or do you not hold yourself to the same standards of behaviour that you ineptly demand others adhere to?

 

[stethoscope]

Yes, us anarchists just love the British establishment and monarchy

 

[philosophical]

The point of such inquiry passing you by unperceived of course. Did someone else write your first few posts or do you not hold yourself to the same standards of behaviour that you ineptly demand that others adhere to?

I am not the hypocrite you appear to be.
What extended polite debate were you after when you enquired if I was a 'saville loving paedo'? What exactly was your 'point'.
I am prepared to defend what I write, are you?

 

[sealion]

In my view the disregard for the Irish land border issue is something that has arisen from ignorance and anti-Irish downright racism.

If you are going to reduce everything brexit down to racism, then i don't see any point in having a discussion with you.

 

[philosophical]

Yes, us anarchists just love the British establishment and monarchy

I am surprise that anarchists love the Monarchy and the British establishment, I dislike both institutions so I am certainly not an anarchist.
Possibly what you write is an attempt to be ironic.

 

[sealion]

Possibly the ones who voted brexit are.

I have black and asian mates that voted brexit, are they racists as well ?

 

[butchersapron]

I am not the hypocrite you appear to be.
What extended polite debate were you after when you enquired if I was a 'saville loving paedo'? What exactly was your 'point'.
I am prepared to defend what I write, are you?

Could someone explain it to him? Actually don't bother. He's very unlikely to grasp it after having missed the point after having it directly explained to him.

 

[philosophical]

If you are going to reduce everything brexit down to racism, then i don't see any point in having a discussion with you.

That is a good 'out' for you, and I wasn't aware we were having a discussion, just regular posters (presumably) on here forming a queue to have a dig.
Stalk off in a huff if you like, but it helpfully avoids any need for you to suggest a practical solution to the Irish border question, which you presumably had a plan for before you voted brexit (if indeed you voted brexit).

 

[philosophical]

I have black and asian mates that voted brexit, are they racists as well ?

They might well be.
I don't want to make assumptions about people simply because of their ethnicity.

 

[philosophical]

Could someone explain it to him? Actually don't bother. He's very unlikely to grasp it after having missed the point after having it directly explained to him.

Another dodger huh?
You asked me if I were a saville loving paedo, and nobody at all has explained if there is some kind of subtle meaning to that.
As far as I am concerned you accuse me of child sexual abuse, and of approving of those who indulge in child sexual abuse.
I am simply observing the level of debate you're capable of.

 

[butchersapron]

Another dodger huh?
You asked me if I were a saville loving paedo, and nobody at all has explained if there is some kind of subtle meaning to that.
As far as I am concerned you accuse me of child sexual abuse, and of approving of those who indulge in child sexual abuse.
I am simply observing the level of debate you're capable of.

When exactly, did the horse kick you in the head?

 

[sealion]

They might well be.
I don't want to make assumptions about people simply because of their ethnicity.

Shit trolling. Off you fuck.

 

[philosophical]

When exactly, did the horse kick you in the head?

You continually make my point for me.

You wrote:
'This confused old gentleman's (who should maybe think about laying off the sunday lunchtime pints) ill-informed vitriol disgusting smears and illogical evidence free attempts at argument strike me as simply being the less polite version of what many of the more prolific anti-brexit posters on this thread have put forward.'

Yet you 'evidence free' suggest that I am a paedophile by asking me if i were. Nothing to do with brexit or this debate, nothing to do with the 'logic' of this debate, nothing to do with being polite.
I suppose it is possible that you are revealing aspects of your own personal agenda by going down a child sexual abuse route I wouldn't know.
Perhaps you could say something worthwhile and sustain examination of what you say.

 

[philosophical]

Shit trolling. Off you fuck.

My wife is Chinese, my son is mixed race, I am well aware of some ethnic issues, so it is you who is shit trolling by introducing the 'some of my best friends are black' angle.
You are of course at liberty to fuck off yourself.

 

[SpookyFrank]

In my view the disregard for the Irish land border issue is something that has arisen from ignorance and anti-Irish downright racism. Hence my opening 'assumption' question.

First you'd need to establish that the Irish border question was being disregarded. To me it seems like practically everything else brexit-related has gone on the back burner because of the Irish border question. Hard to see how it could be given more regard than that.

 

[DotCommunist]

but he was simply asking a question, were not your own first posts on the thread simply asking a question?

 

[free spirit]

First you'd need to establish that the Irish border question was being disregarded. To me it seems like practically everything else brexit-related has gone on the back burner because of the Irish border question. Hard to see how it could be given more regard than that.

It was largely disregarded during the referendum debate, and for a fair time after it - only really when the EU made clear that the Irish had a veto on the issue did it really start to dawn on the UK brexit team that they needed to give it some serious attention.

 

[philosophical]

First you'd need to establish that the Irish border question was being disregarded. To me it seems like practically everything else brexit-related has gone on the back burner because of the Irish border question. Hard to see how it could be given more regard than that.

I ought to have phrased it better and not used the word 'disregard'. I am really asking for a solution.
To be provocative I would suggest that brexiters voted for 310 miles of razor wire fencing, and British machine gun nests every twenty yards to 'regain control of the UK borders'. If my example is wrong, then what did brexit voters hope for when voting brexit to regain control of the land border?
At the moment no workable suggestion has been suggested, but you're are right is hasn't been disregarded because I suppose people like me bang on about it all the time.

 

[stethoscope]

^ Oh my

 

[philosophical]

but he was simply asking a question, were not your own first posts on the thread simply asking a question?

Are you referring to the horse question?
If you are the answer is that I have not been kicked in the head by a horse.