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Is America heading towards dictatorship?

I am of course opposed to the removal of the right to vote, but by "what difference would it make" I mean, what policies would be implemented by a Trump as a dictator that would be different from those implemented by Trump as not a dictator.
I suppose locking up his opponents?
 
I think it not only needs saying, but also needs justifying.
Democracy, and "the vote", are at their least credible in my lifetime.
Yes agree, of course mine too... and I fully appreciate how we have basically been living under a one party state system for however many decades you care to go back
But its not the same as a dictatorship though, and it sloppy thinking to just say its all just the same as.
The existence of elections always leave a possibility open to us that is far from meaningless.

There are key gatekeepers to meaningful democratic change in the UK that we should be able to exert power over, namely the PMC-right that run Labour and the unions. That we don't achieve this is our failure. Its far easier for us to exert power within a democracy than it is a dictatorship, by several orders of magnitude.
 
I am of course opposed to the removal of the right to vote, but by "what difference would it make" I mean, what policies would be implemented by a Trump as a dictator that would be different from those implemented by Trump as not a dictator.
how about the policy of locking up/torturing/disappearing internal dissidents?
 
Yes agree, of course mine too... and I fully appreciate how we have basically been living under a one party state system for however many decades you care to go back
But its not the same as a dictatorship though, and it sloppy thinking to just say its all just the same as.
The existence of elections always leave a possibility open to us that is far from meaningless.

There are key gatekeepers to meaningful democratic change in the UK that we should be able to exert power over, namely the PMC-right that run Labour and the unions. That we don't achieve this is our failure. Its far easier for us to exert power within a democracy than it is a dictatorship, by several orders of magnitude.
Yeah. I agree that even the shittest democracy is probably better than any dictatorship, but we shouldn't take that assumption for granted.
 
They do have a track record of shooting them or locking them up on trumped up charges TBF.

Whether that's is maller quantities than it might otherwise be is the question.
Yes this is true too, to an extent.
I still think its wrong to just throw the baby out with the bath water on this

not read this but read reviews - i agree with the sentiments
 
how about the policy of locking up/torturing/disappearing internal dissidents?
It does not necessarily follow that if Trump was a dictator that political opponents would be repressed.
At the moment, it seems that he could enact all the policies that he wishes to, as he has a majority in the US Congress. Why would he need to be a dictator?
 
I'd think that the possibility of the Democrats getting back in in 2028 would surely be the big difference. As for getting rid of political opponents, I don't think we should forget Michael Reinoehl too quickly.
Is worth bearing in mind, of course, that Israel is pretty clearly a multi-party democracy, a fairly functional one as these things go, and not a dictatorship. Suppose we could also ask where the US prior to the Civil Rights Movement falls on the democracy/dictatorship scale?
 
I would leave you a Thanks emoji, but this site doesn't provide them - so thank you.

1. I think, like his promises, Trump offers more than he delivers. I was certainly not aware of invading Greenland for its resources as being a motivator for his supporters, but perhaps it will now (after they've checked their maps for where it is).

2. International diplomacy is a pretty fragile thing. I think how countries act towards each other and what they really think of each other can be very different things. I also think (unsurprisingly) that a government does not always represent a population, Exhibit A being the Tories for the past 14 years. Another example, for me, is the various COPS, which are basically just attempts to avoid responsibility and pay a lie to the "global village" concept.

3. Finally, I think the MSM has lost its way because it no longer seems to hold administrations to account. It could be due to poor quality journalism, it could be due to an obsession with competing with Social Media for clicks and likes, it could be due to being denied access if they don't toe the line, or it could be due to threats of legal action and/or closure. Having two megalomaniacs in charge of FB and Twitter (or whatever it's called now) doesn't help as they seem happy to spread misinformation and lies to millions whilst being accountable to no one.

I suppose, to everyone who posts on this topic on here, the motivations of the likes of Trump, Farage, Musk and Tate are fairly transparent - money and power - but their defenders and supporters appear to see and hear another narrative, one that's been fed to them and uncritically absorbed.

We can be an egotistical species and we don't like being told we're wrong or that we're being manipulated (see Brexit supporters). I suppose in the same way our international standing plummeted under the Tories, something similar might happen with America under Trump, but we'll have to see whether his supporters care (I suspect not) and if it affects his popularity.
Your 3), if you'd been watching eg the la times and Washington post you'd know that the owners of the papers made decisions on editorial line. It has been in er the msm recently. Eg LA Times staffers say owner’s pro-Trump meddling worse than previously reported or https://www.npr.org/2024/10/25/nx-s1-5165353/washington-post-presidential-endorsement-trump-harris. In addition, advertisers too have influence on media direction and anyway the notion the media's job is to hold governments to account is far more honoured in the breach than the observance.
 
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It does not necessarily follow that if Trump was a dictator that political opponents would be repressed.
Hes not a benign dictator philosopher king and he has shown a streak of revengism.
At the moment, it seems that he could enact all the policies that he wishes to, as he has a majority in the US Congress. Why would he need to be a dictator?
His majority isnt absolute. There are still some degree of norms and accountability within congress and still things he might try and do which would be beyond the pale for them.
 
I'd think that the possibility of the Democrats getting back in in 2028 would surely be the big difference. As for getting rid of political opponents, I don't think we should forget Michael Reinoehl too quickly.
Is worth bearing in mind, of course, that Israel is pretty clearly a multi-party democracy, a fairly functional one as these things go, and not a dictatorship. Suppose we could also ask where the US prior to the Civil Rights Movement falls on the democracy/dictatorship scale?
And, of course, the difficulties faced by third parties in getting on the ballot paper, and the fact that those who have served prison sentences are not allowed to vote in most states, and the difficulties faced by many people in actually voting (a shortage of polling stations leading to huge queues in some areas), and the lack of neutrality of those who run the elections, has led international bodies to conclude that the USA is not fully democratic (in the commonly used sense of that term).
 
Hes not a benign dictator philosopher king and he has shown a streak of revengism.

His majority isnt absolute. There are still some degree of norms and accountability within congress and still things he might try and do which would be beyond the pale for them.
He's openly stated he is on a revenge tour of everyone who has ever opposed him. Just look at all the shit about Hunter. After saying he should have got a death sentence, it's no wonder Joe pardoned him. The orange fuckwit is going to be rounding up anyone whoever looked at him in a funny way, and having all the nutjobs in his administration, and replacing every government job with his stooges, through Project 2025, it's a no-brainer that he is sizing up his jackboots and practising his salute.
 
How would, or how could, Trump become a dictator?
 
Just saw this shared from the FT...posting here as feels relevant:
"Musk, Thiel and the shadow of apartheid South Africa
The parallels between South Africa then and the US today are striking"
opening para:
"Elon Musk lived in apartheid South Africa until he was 17. David Sacks, the venture capitalist who has become a fundraiser for Donald Trump and a troll of Ukraine, left aged five, and grew up in a South African diaspora family in Tennessee. Peter Thiel spent years of childhood in South Africa and Namibia, where his father was involved in uranium mining as part of the apartheid regime’s clandestine drive to acquire nuclear weapons. And Paul Furber, an obscure South African software developer and tech journalist living near Johannesburg, has been identified by two teams of forensic linguists as the originator of the QAnon conspiracy, which helped shape Trump’s Maga movement. (Furber denies being “Q”.)"
 
That does not explain how Trump could become a dictator. It makes no reference to the political mechanisms.
 
Trump already has all the authority he needs to order whatever he wants to happen for at least the next two years and, quite possibly, the next four. He can either use that time to do all the things he wants to do or he can spend the time instead engaged in the civil war that would kick off if he tried to actually make himself a legal dictator. He can either have four years of fun followed by triumphant retirement at 82 or he can have four years of annoying detail combined with the rest of his life worrying that what happened to Gadaffi will happen to him too. I’m with PTK that he doesn’t need to go through any transformation of governance. It doesn’t realistically help him achieve anything he can’t already do.
 
From the sounds of it you're familiar with the work so it'd be a kindness if you summarised how p2025 suggests he does it
Do your own homework.

For someone who claims to be knowledgeable about politics, are you claiming you know nothing about Project 2025? I'm shocked. I'm pretty sure you can research and find details, or even download the 900 pages (I think, without checking for you).
 
Do your own homework.

For someone who claims to be knowledgeable about politics, are you claiming you know nothing about Project 2025? I'm shocked. I'm pretty sure you can research and find details, or even download the 900 pages (I think, without checking for you).
So, in other words, your "answer" to my question is "I am not going to tell you, look it up."
Why bother replying with such a non-answer?
If you had read said document, you would be able to quote a little bit of it. I have not read it myself.
 
So, in other words, your "answer" to my question is "I am not going to tell you, look it up."
Why bother replying with such a non-answer?
If you had read said document, you would be able to quote a little bit of it. I have not read it myself.
A 3 minute primer on what it involves. Bear in mind this was from months ago, and the thing has since allied himself with it, probably forgetting he lied that he knew nothing about it. There is literally loads of info on it out there, but as I keep being told that some posters don't like vids, I've chosen this very short info piece. If you are genuinely interested, you can find the details easily enough.

 
A 3 minute primer on what it involves. Bear in mind this was from months ago, and the thing has since allied himself with it, probably forgetting he lied that he knew nothing about it. There is literally loads of info on it out there, but as I keep being told that some posters don't like vids, I've chosen this very short info piece. If you are genuinely interested, you can find the details easily enough.


Well, that does not answer my question. It does not explain how Trump could become a dictator. I mentions nothing about how he could revoke the right to vote or the rule of law.
 
A 3 minute primer on what it involves. Bear in mind this was from months ago, and the thing has since allied himself with it, probably forgetting he lied that he knew nothing about it. There is literally loads of info on it out there, but as I keep being told that some posters don't like vids, I've chosen this very short info piece. If you are genuinely interested, you can find the details easily enough.


I was about to say a brief summary would be useful so I don't have to read it. So thanks for the video :thumbs:

Though I still have questions :hmm:

Wot PTK says.
 
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