Intersectionality

[fogbat]

isn't the whole of academia like that, tbh, I found it all a bit of emperors new clothes, take away the obtuse language and much of it was just flannel the rest being just common sense.

The whole of academia is entirely like that. Quantum physics is just showing off.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Have a read of the book on the sojouner truth organisastion - it's interesting in hows this came out of the marginalisation of of working class women by feminism in the 70s (albeit mediated through university radicals having to explain it back to the women). It effectively steals these struggles and makes them into the property of uni-educated poshoes. It's pretty turgid going too.

That link doesn't seem to work mate.

 

[Pickman's model]

That link doesn't seem to work mate.

works fine if you're looking for a 404

 

[treelover]

The whole of academia is entirely like that. Quantum physics is just showing off.

I meant the social sciences, humanities, cultural studies, especially the last.

 

[JimW]

That link doesn't seem to work mate.

It's failed to intersect with the file in question.

 

[butchersapron]

That link doesn't seem to work mate.

It does not, Hang on.

 

[Pickman's model]

isn't the whole of academia like that, tbh, I found it all a bit of emperors new clothes, take away the obtuse language and much of it was just flannel the rest being just common sense.

no

next

 

[butchersapron]

It does not, Hang on.

Hmm, that's annoying can't find it on my laptop either (i'll get back on this later)

 

[Fozzie Bear]

ETA: Weird double post, sorry.

 

[JimW]

Have a read of the book on the sojouner truth organisastion - it's interesting in how this came out of the marginalisation of working class women by feminism in the 70s (albeit mediated through university radicals having to explain it back to the women). It effectively steals these struggles and makes them into the property of uni-educated poshoes. It's pretty turgid going too.

Aware of the sojourner truth lot without knowing that much. Fits with what a US friend here told me, in her view it was a misuse of some reasonable criticisms from inside the wider working class movement of how racism and sexism could be reproduced in the movement if you weren't careful due to it emerging from that sort of society, then these critiques go on to have a life of their own with people who abandoned or were never part of the larger movement for FULL COMMUNISM (tm)
Which is probably my shit rendering of what she said.

 

[Wilf]

I meant the social sciences, humanities, cultural studies, especially the last.

I suspect it's a rather good theory.... for presenting and promoting the dodgy politics that underpin it.

 

[Fez909]

This is what intersectionalists think they are trying to do:

That argument doesn't even stand up anyway.

So you have to join up with other oppressed people in order to fight oppression together. But by defining so many axes of oppression, almost everyone can claim to be oppressed now, meaning we...team up with everyone?

Cool. Everyone's oppressed and we're all in the same anti-oppression group. Now what?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

This post by Stavvers addressed to Suzanne Moore pretty much encapsulates everything

Then you follow on to say “Much “on trend” feminism has lost touch as it is over-determined by sexuality. Whether we are discussing “sex workers”, trans issues or porn, the overriding differences between women are far less “sexy”. They remain largely to do with class.” Well, not quite. Class isn’t everything. Ever heard of, for example, the cotton ceiling? Class is, of course, a really important issue too, and intersects with these problems. This does not make it the only factor.

Class isn't everything, have you considered that some trans people might not be having as much sex as they would like?

ETA: From here: http://stavvers.tumblr.com/post/49427098074/an-open-letter-to-suzanne-moore-because-she-blocked-me

 

[butchersapron]

Has anyone ever met of one of these people who say class is the only thing and nothing else exists btw? I've been knocking around class obsessed types for many years now and i've never met anyone who thinks that.

 

[gawkrodger]

Do these loons exist outside of London? Can't say I've really come across this rubbish up here

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I don't think I can add to this, posted on another thread

for some reason i keep thinking "intersectionality - young and warm and wild and free"

 

[revol68]

Has anyone ever met of one of these people who say class is the only thing and nothing else exists btw? I've been knocking around class obsessed types for many years now and i've never met anyone who thinks that.

Not explicitly but at times I've felt the two class model, whilst fundamentally correct as an analysis of capitalism, has been used to avoid addressing real divisions within the working class, at least on libcom there was sometimes an undercurrent of that. Brilliantly this is something these privilege/intersectionality seem to reproduce.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not explicitly but at times I've felt the two class model, whilst fundamentally correct as an analysis of capitalism, has been used to avoid addressing real divisions within the working class, at least on libcom there was sometimes an undercurrent of that. Brilliantly this is something these privilege/intersectionality seem to reproduce.

doesn't sound so good then if they're reproducing, however brilliantly, something which helps avoid addressing real divisions within the working class.

 

[revol68]

doesn't sound so good then if they're reproducing, however brilliantly, something which helps avoid addressing real divisions within the working class.

Yeah it doesn't does it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah it doesn't does it.

yeh

 

[JimW]

The consensus model in full effect

 

[J Ed]

Do these loons exist outside of London? Can't say I've really come across this rubbish up here

Lots at Sheffield Uni. Sadly.

 

[fiannanahalba]

They are in all the strongholds of socialism.

 

[J Ed]

Intersectionality is intersectional with being a smug cunt and a total lack of self awareness.

 

[BigTom]

Do these loons exist outside of London? Can't say I've really come across this rubbish up here

Lots at Sheffield Uni. Sadly.

and the University of Birmingham

 

[FNG]

the whole "check your privilege" notion reeks of being one long patronisingly self satisfied circle jerk,

 

[everything2go]

I don't quite understand the beef some have here with intersectional politics? Most people I encounter that identify as intersectional do not lack a class based analysis, nor downplay it's effects, instead they recognise racism, patriachy, ableism, transphobia etc all serve as a divide and rule tactic for the elite. If you recognise how implicitly pervasive not only capitalism, but these other forms of discrimination, is in shaping our lives, interactions, and relationships, on a subconscious level, then what is the point in only trying to tackle capitalism without addressing these other issues? To me it just sits happily with my politics, that everyone is of equal value and should deserve an equal say, and intersectionality is promoting these values within our own communities/protest groups whilst fighting capitalism. Gender oppression, racism, ableism etc are tools of capitalist oppression - so we should smash them all.

I do also have issues with the language of academia and the way certain types just throw out complicated jargon expecting us all to understand it.

 

[kenny g]

I find it amusing that the Kill Men slogan is justified because apparently people who say ACAB don't really believe it. I always thought that for many, ACAB was a statement of truth learnt from experience.

(I don't use it because I don't believe it BTW.)

 

[equationgirl]

I don't quite understand the beef some have here with intersectional politics? Most people I encounter that identify as intersectional do not lack a class based analysis, nor downplay it's effects, instead they recognise racism, patriachy, ableism, transphobia etc all serve as a divide and rule tactic for the elite. If you recognise how implicitly pervasive not only capitalism, but these other forms of discrimination, is in shaping our lives, interactions, and relationships, on a subconscious level, then what is the point in only trying to tackle capitalism without addressing these other issues? To me it just sits happily with my politics, that everyone is of equal value and should deserve an equal say, and intersectionality is promoting these values within our own communities/protest groups whilst fighting capitalism. Gender oppression, racism, ableism etc are tools of capitalist oppression - so we should smash them all.

I do also have issues with the language of academia and the way certain types just throw out complicated jargon expecting us all to understand it.

They're not expecting you to understand it at all. It's more to disguise that they don't understand whilst fooling non-academics into thinking they're really clever (when they're not). In my opinion.

Balbi started a thread on this topic a while ago, had a lot of good stuff in it.

 

[weepiper]

I don't quite understand the beef some have here with intersectional politics? Most people I encounter that identify as intersectional do not lack a class based analysis, nor downplay it's effects, instead they recognise racism, patriachy, ableism, transphobia etc all serve as a divide and rule tactic for the elite. If you recognise how implicitly pervasive not only capitalism, but these other forms of discrimination, is in shaping our lives, interactions, and relationships, on a subconscious level, then what is the point in only trying to tackle capitalism without addressing these other issues? To me it just sits happily with my politics, that everyone is of equal value and should deserve an equal say, and intersectionality is promoting these values within our own communities/protest groups whilst fighting capitalism. Gender oppression, racism, ableism etc are tools of capitalist oppression - so we should smash them all.

I do also have issues with the language of academia and the way certain types just throw out complicated jargon expecting us all to understand it.

There is a deep irony in the fact that the concept of intersectionality basically boils down to 'don't be a dick', but people who loudly identify as intersectionalists invariably seem to behave like dicks.