Inside, against and beyond the Labour Party: Thoughts for the Left post-GE

[8ball]

Introduce a requirement to have worked in a real world job for at least ten years, before being eligible to be an MP.

Do you have a list of what counts as a "real job", and does it come with an estimate of how many current MPs would be considered ineligible if starting out now?

 

[treelover]

There was a time when the loss of Labour seats in Scotland because of independence would have led to pretty much eternal Conservative government.

It appears to have happened without independence.

I really don't know where Labour goes from here. They have a hell of a hill to climb.

The regeneration of Labour is essential, it isn't healthy to have one party in a dominant position for decades, which is what looks likely at present.

It would perhaps help their cause to drop the extremist language, and set out achievable objectives.

My 'wish list' would be:

Scrap Trident.

Scrap HS2.

Start a large social housing program, by the establishment of a National Housing Corporation. Once you get past a certain number of houses, rental income would fund new building, input of state cash would be quantifiable and finite. On the back of this, get apprentices into training.

Tax the big corporations that are avoiding tax. Use a turnover tax if necessary.

Increase NHS funding. Borrow to buy out the PFI contracts that are crippling health trusts.

Increase public transport provision funded by dropping the freeze on fuel duty.

Look at hydrogen technology for vehicles and home heating.

Introduce a requirement to have worked in a real world job for at least ten years, before being eligible to be an MP.

Introduce a training scheme for doctors, where no tuition fees are paid, and either accommodating provided for the whole of the training period, or a bursary paid. In return, the newly qualified doctors would be obliged to work full time in the NHS for a period equivalent to their training. (At the usual salary).

Look after those who cannot look after themselves, in a decent and dignified manner. Build psychiatric bed provision.

Any party that offered part of that would get my vote.

Pretty progressive programme there.

 

[two sheds]

Hard left many would say.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Hard left many would say.

Indeed. My views are as much left as right in many ways.

 

[two sheds]

Doesn't that mean you hate and despise yourself though?

Well the hard left side of yourself obv.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Do you have a list of what counts as a "real job", and does it come with an estimate of how many current MPs would be considered ineligible if starting out now?

Too many MPs have come down the:

School
University PPE 2/2
Work for an MP as a researcher etc
Contest an unwinnable to get blooded
Given a winnable
Elected as an MP despite not one moment of work of use to the community.

By 'real world' job, I mean a job outside of the political bubble.

As to your second point... one is too many (in truth, I'm too idle to trawl through 600 odd biographies )

 

[Pickman's model]

Too many MPs have come down the:

School
University PPE 2/2
Work for an MP as a researcher etc
Contest an unwinnable to get blooded
Given a winnable
Elected as an MP despite not one moment of work of use to the community.

By 'real world' job, I mean a job outside of the political bubble.

As to your second point... one is too many (in truth, I'm too idle to trawl through 600 odd biographies )

i am glad you are of the same opinion i first enunciated perhaps 13 or more years ago

let me know when you've something vaguely new and original to say

 

[8ball]

Too many MPs have come down the:

School
University PPE 2/2
Work for an MP as a researcher etc
Contest an unwinnable to get blooded
Given a winnable
Elected as an MP despite not one moment of work of use to the community.

By 'real world' job, I mean a job outside of the political bubble.

As to your second point... one is too many (in truth, I'm too idle to trawl through 600 odd biographies )

Ok, so at least one MP has arrived at the job via a pathway you disapprove of.
And also MPs' staff don't do any work of use to the community.

I'm not sure how much traction that gives you re: changing the rules.

 

[rekil]

Pay to attend a 'rally'. Admission fees for 'antiwar' demos next.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

A lot of emerging analysis on the GE result had arrived at the conclusion that it’s the voters and not the LP that are to blame.

Andy Beckett, someone who often had something interesting to say, had joined this camp. His article is basically arguing that if the ungrateful working class voters don't want Labour then it’s the voters not the party or the ideas that need replacing.

Labour’s heartlands may be gone for ever. It needs to find new ones | Andy Beckett

The northern towns have changed. But in cities the party has adapted well to the shifts and disruptions of the modern world, says Guardian columnist Andy Beckett

www.theguardian.com

There are at least three gigantic problems with this analysis.

1. This is precisely the conclusion that the French left drew - replace/change the working class with an imagined new one in the cities and aspirational burbs. The result? The French left now polls around 6-9% via its new coalition.

2.The article presents the red wall as declining communities of well heeled ex-miners living in bungalows and where their kids have cleared off to vote Labour in cities. That it does continues to reveal both the authors class snobbery and fundamental misunderstanding of these areas. And what worse for Labour is that people living in these areas have come to understand that they are hated by Labour types and now openly sneer right back at the Party that sneers at them.

3. The mythical new coalition of cities and affluent/aspirational areas will require a return to the right. Corbynism won’t win Swindon (as we saw). Is that really what Momentum are in the game for? And how do a few seats in the south overcome the loss of Scotland, Wales, the north and the Midlands anyway?

 

[butchersapron]

Surprising to hear an oxbridge boy promote such nonsense - in the guardian of all places too. It really is open doors for this stuff right now.

 

[butchersapron]

Tell you what, lucky there's no cities in the midlands or north eh? What about looking into how diff areas with diff profiles voted within those non-existing cities andy? On leave, in 2017 and in 2019. Or the actually existing cities of bristol liverpool etc heroically held up by the liberals as hold outs.

(Most damning of all though: 'Andy Beckett is a Guardian columnist')

 

[Smokeandsteam]

in addition to Beckett’s red wall of bungalows with rich retired miners and no black people or youth, we’ve got Sadiq Khan ‘love-bombing’ Liberal Democrat’s, we’ve got Paul Mason and Clive Lewis wowing Norwich with talk of ‘progressive alliances’ for the win, we’ve got a North London Remain obsessed Barrister emerging as the man to pull it all together and take it forward.

I’d say the reflective lessons learned exercise is going very very well.

 

[sihhi]

Only pain when reading a line such as this:
'Cities are where the party has adapted best to the deep shifts and sudden disruptions of the modern world.'

The Labour party in Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, London council after council has spearheaded an aggressive form of pro-rich gentrification.

 

[treelover]

To win back the working class we must ditch identity politics
The right has seized on our insistence upon all things woke and have used this to parody our whole movement, says BECK ROBERTSON

To win back the working class we must ditch identity politics

The right has seized on our insistence upon all things woke and have used this to parody our whole movement, says BECK ROBERTSON

morningstaronline.co.uk

Morning Star article,

quite controversial

 

[Proper Tidy]

Just as an aside, I haven't bought a morning star in ten odd years, since I got a smart phone. Not that I was ever a regular reader, just for train journeys and that. How does it keep going, is it just union money

 

[The39thStep]

Morning Star article,

quite controversial

Nothing too controversial tbh

 

[Dom Traynor]

It's ok everyone problem solved the anarchists have got it in hand.

About Us

Black Rose is the libertarian socialist caucus of the UK Labour Party. We are Labour members who, like all other socialists, believe in the common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; but we also realise that the fullest realisation of this core socialist principle...

blackroselabour.uk

 

[Proper Tidy]

World's gone mad.

 

[ska invita]

It's ok everyone problem solved the anarchists have got it in hand.

About Us

Black Rose is the libertarian socialist caucus of the UK Labour Party. We are Labour members who, like all other socialists, believe in the common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; but we also realise that the fullest realisation of this core socialist principle...

blackroselabour.uk

spotted these as well - not anarchists though

Labour Transformed

Se deben seguir algunos consejos cruciales para crear un plan de jubilación exitoso que dé frutos en el futuro. Cualquiera que siga estos consejos podrá idear un plan adecuado que le ayudará a hacer…

labourtransformed.org

maybe already mentioned on thread,

 

[Proper Tidy]

I get they are calling themselves anticapitalist as a catch all umbrella term but I haven't seen somebody/group use that phrase for a long time, feels very early 00s

 

[ska invita]

And also kind of on this ticket too - Mutiny

About | Mutiny | find out more about us

Find out more about Mutiny and its aims

www.timetomutiny.org

Who we are and where we stand


We are a group of socialists, many of us active in the Labour Party, who have come together to build a socialist organisation on the following basis.

• Humanity and the planet now face an existential crisis in the form of climate catastrophe, creeping fascism, and corporate power. This is a capitalist crisis caused by a system based on private profit, unregulated growth, and increasing inequality and misery.

• The weakness of the labour movement and the disorientation of the left, including the Labour leadership, have prevented an effective class-based response to austerity, corporate power, fascist advance, and the climate crisis.

• Profit or planet: the capitalist drive for short-term profitability before human need means that hitting climate goals, such as a 1.5°C limit, is impossible. We are faced with the necessity to do away with capitalism before it does away with us. Anti-capitalism and environmentalism are inextricably linked.

• There is both a political polarisation and a political realignment going on in Britain and internationally. New divisions are emerging and new unity is being created. We are part of a radical socialist realignment in Britain and internationally.

• We oppose all forms of prejudice, discrimination, and oppression. We are for a united mass movement based on our common humanity and diversity.

• We are internationalists. We oppose immigration controls and borders. We oppose Brexit, nationalism, and racism. We stand in solidarity with migrants, Muslims, and other racially oppressed groups. We support the right of self-organisation and self-defence against bigoted violence.

• We are acutely aware of the historic danger of radicals bending the knee to those in power. We are critical of 'parliamentary roads to socialism' and 'gradualism' as a strategy. We recognise the inherent dangers in electoralism and parliamentarianism; of triangulation and co-option; of being incorporated into the status quo.

• The struggle from below is an essential part of socialist transformation. We want to overthrow capitalism, not reform it. We support reform in as much as it improves the lives of working people and creates the space for more profound change.

• Our activity is oriented towards progressive sections of the working class, including work in existing mass organisations such as the Labour Party, unions, and Momentum, alongside extra-parliamentary campaigns, movements, and struggles.

• We favour full internal democracy, wide-ranging discussion, and the autonomy of local groups. We recognise the need to break free from the sect-like behaviour and strategies of traditional socialist organisations.

• This is a living document that will evolve as Mutiny grows. We welcome critical feedback.

 

[Proper Tidy]

After defeat come fractures and all that I suppose

 

[ska invita]

After defeat come fractures and all that I suppose

usual suspects rebranding/structuring also a factor i expect

 

[Proper Tidy]

usual suspects rebranding also a factor i expect

That labour transformed looks a bit like that, the new socialist lot or something. The other two look a bit teenage black hoodie have you seen political compass and chomsky if you know what I mean

 

[ska invita]

That labour transformed looks a bit like that, the new socialist lot or something. The other two look a bit teenage black hoodie have you seen political compass and chomsky if you know what I mean

This is pure gleaning based on social media posts etc but i think labour transformed might have something to do with Plan C?
And Mutiny, judging by its book shop and also facebook posts involves at the least Neil Faulkner and Simon Hannah

 

[Arbeter Fraynd]

spotted these as well - not anarchists though

Labour Transformed

Se deben seguir algunos consejos cruciales para crear un plan de jubilación exitoso que dé frutos en el futuro. Cualquiera que siga estos consejos podrá idear un plan adecuado que le ayudará a hacer…

labourtransformed.org

maybe already mentioned on thread,

The time line given in their background statement is hilarious - Leninism fails in 2013, give anarchism/autonomism/non hierarchical direct action a go for two years but then realise it doesn't work and Corbyn is the answer...

Presentation of Organisational Principles – Labour Transformed

 

[Arbeter Fraynd]

To be fair some of what they're saying makes sense, and if you have any sympathy for the (understandable but probably misguided) idea that the Labour party is the right context for fighting for radical social change then some sort of organisation of that sort is probably a good plan... but still

 

[Smokeandsteam]

To be fair some of what they're saying makes sense, and if you have any sympathy for the (understandable but probably misguided) idea that the Labour party is the right context for fighting for radical social change then some sort of organisation of that sort is probably a good plan... but still

I'm glad you posted up this after your previous post. It's really easy to sneer at this stuff. Some of it is naive, some of it is very very misguided and some of it is a dead end of burn out, disillusionment and wasted energy.

But, - their instincts are right. They want to build something that is organised but non-hierarchical, they want to focus on social change, they want to be outward facing and they've already worked out how rotten the organisation of the LP is.

The question, of course, and as you say, is what will be left of these young activists once they've tried and come to the realisation that what they want to do and the dead weight of the Party are fundamentally incompatible.

 

[Arbeter Fraynd]

But, - their instincts are right. They want to build something that is organised but non-hierarchical, they want to focus on social change, they want to be outward facing and they've already worked out how rotten the organisation of the LP is.

Yep, absolutely. And getting a bit involved in campaigning during the election where I live made me realise that locally at least there are a lot of people I want to be fighting alongside who are in the Labour party - I'm very sceptical about the organisation and about electoral social democrat politics but it is where some good people are at least trying to and thinking hard about how to do good stuff...

The reasons why there's recebtly something of a coalition between anarchists and Labour activists is complicated, but at least some of them are positive