Industrial music and its relationship(??) to fascism

[Sea Star]

thanks

 

[ManchesterBeth]

He's being asked the wrong question - never mind the music and music scene, he should be asked about his collaboration with real fascists, far righters and racists outside of the music business. For example his work with the scumbags around the Tyr journal and in publishing french fascists, far righters and racists. He was in his 30s when he was doing this, not a teenager.

This is news to me, though probably well documented.

 

[londonkid]

Some are fascists. Some are gay. Some are both.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

A friend linked to this anti-fascist darkwave page on Facebook the other day, which seems alright:
https://www.facebook.com/AntifascistDarkwave

 

[ouchmonkey]

sooooooo in light of Cold Spring again being occasionally a bit dodgy and putting out the release of Coil's 'lost' Backwards just now, I was going on again about Coil's involvement with Boyd Rice, Death In June, etc and how they had always been 'borderline' dodgy and never publicly distanced themselves from that stuff (although it seemed clear in their work etc. they had moved away from those people and ideas)

a mate just produced this interview, a great piece - worth reading the whole thing, in which Sleazy is pretty clear...

"The track is “Rise” and it’s by Non aka Boyd Rice.

Boyd was kind of a pal of Jhonn and we collaborated quite early on with Coil [as Sickness Of Snakes] on an album called Nightmare Culture. And then Boyd became, as I understand it, more forthright in his right wing ideas in the press, and so consequently we rather drifted apart. Jhonn and I and Boyd met up a few times in the early part of the century. I think he’s interesting in the sense of being a maverick and actually not caring too much what people think, but with most people who make a public statement of their fascist views, it seems to me silly and unnecessary and distasteful.

You have said that you like to tell it like it is, but you also push boundaries.

I’m afraid truth often takes you outside boundaries, and that can cause embarrassment, which as we all know is more painful for us Englishmen than the worst torture. A long time after Coil and Boyd worked together, we fell out because of Boyd’s increasingly racist public image. It wasn’t because of political or social correctness. For us it was just common sense. Anyone who singles out a particular portion of any population for criticism just because they fit into a certain category, whether it be gay or black or Jewish or even female, to us was, and is, simply moronic. Clearly all humanity is filled with good people and bad people, and it’s got absolutely nothing to do with what colour shirt, or skin you’ve got on Đ or even your aftershave. Back in 1982 or 83, Jhonn, Marc Almond and I were barred from a heavy gay New York fetish club late one night, because of the brand of aftershave one of us had used, which was a real drag because a group of horny Puerto Ricans had just gone in... [laughs]. That’s not racist is it? Those guys were hot! All too often you can judge a book by its cover, but as for people, no chance.

There are a lot of those Death In June derivative, new fascist kind of bands, who just think if they bang a bass drum and intone some kind of rhetoric and play some horns and stuff... it’s just so boring. My politics now are more or less completely the opposite of that, so I wouldn’t be interested anyway, but musically there seem to be a lot of people now who think there is something clever about putting on a little moustache and wearing a grey mac."​

Sleazy Peter Christopherson unedited - The Wire

 

[killer b]

I read that this morning, excellent interview.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Yeah I read that when I came out. There wasn't all that much connection between Coil and the proper dodgy side of things in that scene. I think John Balance was on one Death In June album and as Sleazy says they didn't have anything to do with Boyd Rice from about 1990 onwards.

More frustrating is the failure of any journalist I know of to ask Sleazy some proper questions about all the nudge nudge wink wink about liking young boys, going to live in Thailand, "Threshold House Boys Choir", artbooks of photos of young boys stuff...

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I should also add that it seems that Coil's legacy has been left in the hands of money grabbing fools, which probably explains the release on Cold Spring.

I was really hoping that a sensible label like Editions Mego would do some awesome re-releases of the back catalogue but apparently that was a dead duck because of some of the characters involved not agreeing. So there are bootlegs instead.

 

[killer b]

Coils entire catalogue is available to download from brainwashed, I believe.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Coils entire catalogue is available to download from brainwashed, I believe.

I do vaguely remember reading that but there doesn't seem to be a link from their Coil page... Anyway Coil were all about lavish physical objects...

 

[killer b]

I hadn't considered the dodginess re: the threshold houseboys choir stuff, but it does seem a bit noncey now you mention it.

That form grows rampant album is brilliant, mind.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I hadn't considered the dodginess re: the threshold houseboys choir stuff, but it does seem a bit noncey now you mention it.

That form grows rampant album is brilliant, mind.

Well dodgy people can still make good music... there were a few references to it throughout his music career but I assumed he was just aping William Burroughs. I wasn't really following his stuff recently but it seemed to have become more overt in the years before he died.

 

[ouchmonkey]

I always though it was a very close to the edge joke about perceptions of him following his move to Thailand
- that people thought he was, as he said himself, 'some awful Gary Glitter type character' which he claimed not to be true.
bit of a worry though.
the music is pretty lovely on the other hand...

 

[lefteri]

The videos he made of the thai boys ritually cutting themselves are pretty hard to watch, there's definitely a link to Burroughs and the consensual exploitation of what would in the West be underage boys - I guess his nickname is a bit of a giveaway but almost certainly something he played on

 

[killer b]

This is going round the internet this afternoon: Mike Tyson used Coil as his entrance music.

The Time Mike Tyson Entered The Ring To Coil - ANIMAL

 

[belboid]

not exactly industrial music...but Ace of Base were actually nazi stormtroopers

http://www.cracked.com/blog/how-90s-pop-band-secretly-sold-nazism-to-america_p2/

 

[Fozzie Bear]

David Tibet not Christian enough for Polish church shocker:
Unsound

killer b I remember people mentioning that Mike Tyson thing but assumed it was balls....

 

[killer b]

tibet is still a pompous windbag, I see.

 

[butchersapron]

Least he didn't bother with his public school latin this time.

edit: Oh god, just a bit of greek. I used to be into latin before it was big. All about the aramaic now.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

tibet is still a pompous windbag, I see.

I can't see that changing, he has very little else to offer.

I like how he goes on about how he's all about Jesus in that piece (albeit in an unconventional way that you normals wouldn't comprehend) but neatly sidesteps all the wailing about the anti-Christ and Aleister Crowley from the 1980s.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Probably one for another thread, but:

Industrial superstars who went to public/posh school:

David Tibet
Genesis P-Orridge
John Balance
Peter Christopherson
Michael Moynihan

I assume there are more?

I'd bet cold hard cash that William Bennett went to public school too.

 

[killer b]

I think this serves perfectly well as a general industrial thread tbh.

 

[butchersapron]

Probably one for another thread, but:

Industrial superstars who went to public/posh school:

David Tibet
Genesis P-Orridge
John Balance
Peter Christopherson
Michael Moynihan

I assume there are more?

I'd bet cold hard cash that William Bennett went to public school too.

I think a lot of this stuff is just a simple inversion of classical public school tradition and the stuff it represents in the wider world on the cultural plane. Note, an inversion. not a rejection. It takes place on the same grounds. In that, you'll find its essential conservatism.

 

[butchersapron]

David Myatt - same thing.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I think a lot of this stuff is just a simple inversion of classical public school tradition and the stuff it represents in the wider world on the cultural plane. Note, an inversion. not a rejection. It takes place on the same grounds. In that, you'll find it's essential conservatism.

I think that's very good - hence the respect and devotion for musty old books and the musty old European men who wrote them.

And the very real industrial old boys club where new acts make guest appearances on the stars' albums before forging their own careers.

Oh and transgression as either Art or Spirituality - or both. Definitely not just for the sake of it.

 

[butchersapron]

This is going round the internet this afternoon: Mike Tyson used Coil as his entrance music.

The Time Mike Tyson Entered The Ring To Coil - ANIMAL

I think i'd be more pumped up by Kenny Loggins. Perfect for getting up for it before going out.

 

[lefteri]

I think a lot of this stuff is just a simple inversion of classical public school tradition and the stuff it represents in the wider world on the cultural plane. Note, an inversion. not a rejection. It takes place on the same grounds. In that, you'll find its essential conservatism.

I've been trying for many years to put my finger on why, despite liking a lot of this music and being somewhat drawn to its culture despite being an outsider to it, there's always been something about this coterie of artists that irked me - I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head

 

[lefteri]

Probably one for another thread, but:

Industrial superstars who went to public/posh school:

David Tibet
Genesis P-Orridge
John Balance
Peter Christopherson
Michael Moynihan

I assume there are more?

I'd bet cold hard cash that William Bennett went to public school too.

Stapleton might be an exception but I don't know for sure

 

[spartacus mills]

Laibach threaten to sue Croation right-wingers for using one of their videos.
Meanwhile over on their FB page Laibach have been posting links calling for support for refugees. Their clueless fash fans react in dismay when they realise that Laibach aren't fascist! Best comment so far ''Please laibach, just keep doing totalitarian music, do not talk about things you do not understand"

 

[killer b]

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